M1A Receiver life?

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I have read how trhe M14 receivers will last 400,000 rounds. I was wondering what a Springfield Armory Receiver was rated for or "should" last to what round count. I don't want to turn this into a forged vs. investment casting debate.
 
Receiver life isn't something I've ever found much info about - the ONLY time I've ever had a discussion with someone who could be presumed to know something about it was at an SCI convention, when I talked with the owner of A-Square; at the time, he was making rather pricey custom rifles based on 1917 Enfield actions. He claimed that the military determined that three barrels could be worn out before the receiver was past its useful life. (I believe his background was as a Lt. Col in Ordnance.)

Should this be considered gospel? I'd have to give a resounding "NO!"

Aside from the obvious fact that a 1917 is not an M14, the military didn't keep detailed rifle-by-rifle records of how many times a rifle was rebuilt - they swapped in new parts, inspected & headspaced the rifles, and put them back into service as soon as they were functional. They probably figured it wasn't necessary, since after wearing out a couple of barrels, issue rifles were probably seeing a lot of other wear, dings, scratches, corrosion, etc., and in due course were junked anyway, without regard to actual round count.
 
The last number I heard floating around cyber space was 400,000 for the milspec M14 receiver, and around 350,000 for the Springfield Armory cast receiver. I can't say how accurate this is and like HankB tend to be generally skeptical of such numbers, but I think it is safe to say the receiver life of an M1A should be several generations, at least.

If you are inquiring prior to purchase, I say, get the rifle, she's a beaut. If you just made a purchase and are inquiring to stave off buyer's remorse or just to remain informed, I say, worry less, shoot more...you'll be fine, and so will your rifle.

In fact, I challenge you to put enough rounds through your M1A receiver to wear it out, and then post back to us to answer your own question.
 
I was wondering what a Springfield Armory Receiver was rated for or "should" last to what round count.

No one honestly knows. The beauty of the question is the lifetime warranty; Live long, shoot much, and break it if you can. I have no doubt they will be happy to hand you a new one if you honestly wear one of theirs out in your lifetime.

As for the 'forged vs. cast' thing--I wouldn't worry so much. No doubt however, as with the case of the 'original' vs. 'new' SA M-1 Garand, everyone has a favorite; the joy of the contest is that it will not likely be settled by the time our great-great-grandchildren are the custodians of the rifles of this breed we cherish so today.

If you ask the M1/M1a/M14 crowd if they can imagine that their personal weapons will be on the firing line a century hence, not many would even blink before answering.
 
If you properly care for the rifle, the receiver will easily span your lifetime and probably a little longer.

Even if the life expectancy is 350,000 rounds, you'd had to do an awful lot of shooting to wear it out. If you shot 1,000 per week you'd be shooting on that receiver for almost 7 years before you reached it's end-of-service-life.
 
Other than issues surrounding the Chinese M1A's I have not run into anyone who "used up" the reciever on an M1A - cast or forged. Some issues reported in terms of initial production specifications. Service rifle teams shot up barrels and had problems keeping them tuned to their level of accuracy needs but I don't remember receiver failure issues. Sounds as if you had better get busy testing the issue. When you get to $100,000 in ammunition costs and rebarrel costs let us know what you think.
 
I don't know of any reports of a cast Springfield Armory, Inc. or a forged Chinese Norinco or Poly Tech receiver failing.

I do know that some Springfield receivers were out of spec when it comes to fitting USGI parts and accessories, but the receivers are otherwise fine.
These issues are not found with Chinese receivers - ChiCom receivers are as close as you can get to USGI.
 
Given the price of .308 ammo, the useful life is probably a hell of a lot higher than I'll ever get in my lifetime. :D
 
One gentleman I shoot with had six barrels on his Springfield Armory M1a, before the receiver cracked just above the magazine release. Assuming a 5000 round barrel life, at 0.50 cents a round, that is about $15,000 worth of ammunition. He duct taped the cracked piece in, and continued shooting. Eventually he sent the rifle to Springfield Armory and they replaced the receiver, for free! :D Excellent service. :D He is still shooting his rifle, has a sticker with the word “Phoenix” on the side of the stock. The finish is worn to the wood where he cheeks the rifle. This year he removed the glue from the rifle stock, and I did not recognize the thing.

The bolt, gas cylinder, trigger guard, flash suppessor, are all original. Last year the operating rod broke in the saddle area and has been replaced.

EditedriflePhoenixDSCN2278.jpg


As for the military, well they have to sit down and think about how long a rifle will last. I have read information that the lifetime of the FN rifle was considered to be 20 years and 5000 rounds. At the end of 20 years or 5000 rounds it was considered acceptable to send the rifle to depot and have everything worn replaced. And that includes the receiver, if necessary.

There is data on the 03 Springfield, the August 1928 article in Army Ordnance on overhauling th 03 Springfield. Out of a 10,000 rifle lot, 90% of the barrels were replaced, 85% of the receivers, 25% of the bolts. There are a lot of little parts listed, and the high percentage of receivers replaced was due to the Army scrapping “low number” receivers.

All numbers based on the lifetime of an existing M1a receiver, or M14 receivers, are estimates. Someone asked a military Armorer and that person gave an estimate.

I talked to the USMC rifle team Armorers about their M14’s, and they would occasionally have a receiver crack behind the rear sight. The most common location was left rear. The USMC also double lugged their receivers. It is my recollection that in 1996, USMC shooter Julia Watson was on path to be high shooter during NRA week, after being high shooter during service rifle week, when her M14 receiver cracked and ruined her score.

M1/M14 receivers receive an impact blow from the bolt. Basically the rear heel is the recoil buffer. If the receiver material is going to fail, it will be on the rear sidewalls. I have no doubt that the supporting material for the left bolt lug was sized for an indefinate fatique life. The right bolt lug is supported by the length of the op rod track.

GI receivers were optimized to reduce weight. The weight goal for the 30 Cal lightweight was an unrealistic seven pounds. Well the weight had to come from somewhere. The LRB forged receiver follows the Government data spec, as close as can without being full auto. As you can see in this rear lugged LRB photo, the there is significant material removal from the right receiver side, and this follows the GI Contour. Springfield Armory added material to their receivers, as can be seen in the second photograph.

LRB

ReducedRailreceiverrightinside.jpg

SA receiver

ReducedDSCN6762SAM1areceiverrightsi.jpg


Lou makes a fine receiver, this is not meant as a criticism of his receivers. The people who are buying his receivers want something as close to GI as possible, and he has to provide what the market wants. Springfield Armory made changes, and I think this was a change for the good.


What would have probably added to the service life of the M14 receiver would have been using a higher grade material. The M14 receiver was made from 8620, an easily machined material that just met requirements. This material was a National Emergency steel first used in WWII Garands, and was used because only trace amounts of the rare and strategic materials Chromium, Nickel and Molybdenum were needed to get acceptable properties. Because 8620 was “Mil spec”, and there are vocal fanatics who think “Mil Spec” cannot be improved, commercial receivers use 8620. However the commercial receivers would be stronger and undoubtedly have a longer lifetime if they were made from a better grade of material, such as 4140.

As it is, 8620 receivers will outlast most shooters, but what that life is, I don’t know. I can’t afford to run a lifetime test.

But no matter how long the design life was, the actual life of these rifles was very short. They were made for less than four years, removed from service, and Evil Clinton destroyed hundreds of thousands of new M14's at Anniston Army Depot. I was able to buy salvaged bolts, op rods, trigger mechanisms, from the CMP, that were essentially, factory new. :fire:
 
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