M1A Socom Problem

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longdayjake

longdayjake

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I went to the range yesterday to shoot some of the 175 grain handloads that I made out of my buddies scoped m1a socom. We first sighted it in with 147 grain military surplus at 100 yards and then put in some of my 175 grainers. The first shot taken did not even hit paper. It also refused to cycle the round. Out of 5 shots only one hit paper and it was not even close to what I was aiming at. Has anyone tried shooting 175 grainers out of a socom? I know it is a gun issue and not an ammo issue because I had my M1A loaded with me and with open sights it was shooting one hole groups with my 175 grainers at 100 yards. Any insights?
 
Maybe his rifle doesn't like your ammo, maybe because of a resizing/chamber tolerance issue?

I would suggest that the heavy bullets are slow enough out of the short barrel that they don't spin fast enough to stablize. However, the fact that the ammo isn't cycling makes me think there is more to it than just bullet stability.

The short barrel can make the pressure curve of the powder charge more critical than with the longer barrel on the other rifle.

Maybe a combination of bullet stability and pressure curve.
 
Powder was 44.7 grains of ramshot big game.

Has anyone else used a Socom? Could it be because the barrel ends like an inch after the gas port? Not enough pressure to cycle the ammo? Like I said, the same load is shooting one hole groups out of my Loaded M1a. It has to be a gun issue. My rifle has shot about 200 rounds whereas his has shot about 450 rounds. So I would guess that his would be more broken in than mine. Something in the gun has to be making the groups so big. I am guessing that barrel twist may have something to do with it.
 
Sure sounds like it is short-cycling to me. I know it is a problem that occurrs in Garands from time to time. But to be honest, I would think the heavier bullets would have higher pressure against the piston, rather than lower, because the bullet is travelling slower and so is in the barrel longer. But that can be showing ignorance because I don't pretend to be an engineer.

Ash
 
Sure sounds like it is short-cycling to me. I know it is a problem that occurrs in Garands from time to time. But to be honest, I would think the heavier bullets would have higher pressure against the piston, rather than lower, because the bullet is travelling slower and so is in the barrel longer. But that can be showing ignorance because I don't pretend to be an engineer.
Click to expand...
It would push the piston harder if you were comparing the same powder charge behind a heavy bullet and behind a light bullet, but I don't reload, and I have no idea what the comparison is between the powder used in the 175's he shot vs. the 147's.
Anyone else?

Jason
 
I'd check over in the reloading forum. If the gas system on the M1A is as sensitive as that of the M1, you may need a different powder.

Big Game is a bit on the slow side for a plain M1 (not sure about the M1A). Something a little faster, like Varget, 4895, TAC, 335, 748, or BL-C(2), might be more appropriate.
 
Why 175 grains?

The 16.25" SOCOM barrel has 6 grooves and a 1:11 ROT, NATO surplus and 155 GR TAP should be perfect.
 
A. 175 gr is a little heavy for the gas system.

B. Short dwell times and shorter barrels require faster powders.

C. Scope or Irons? M1-A's dont have the best scope mounting system in the world. (But they do have the best iron sights in the world);)
 
The loads should print pretty close to one another at 100yds. Either your front sight got bumped/shifted or the rear sight moved or you've got copper streaks in your suppressor indicating that the bullets are striking it.

My money is on the rear sight. Tension should be checked prior to firing as described in the field manual under the Normal Maintenance section.

If you're shooting with optics, then 99% chance it's a mount issue.
 
The loads should print pretty close to one another at 100yds. Either your front sight got bumped/shifted or the rear sight moved or you've got copper streaks in your suppressor indicating that the bullets are striking it.

My money is on the rear sight. Tension should be checked prior to firing as described in the field manual under the Normal Maintenance section.
Click to expand...

Um, it is not a sighting issue. As I mentioned the bullets would not shoot right out of a Socom but did just fine out of my loaded m1a. The socom had a scope and the loaded was iron sights. The loaded shot 1000 times better. It has to be a barrel length issue.
 
I have an old M1A that was converted into a short patrol rifle about 25 years ago. I bobbed the barrel, installed a figure 8 HK style front sight, a scout scope rail, a Smith Muzzle Brake and used an old GI figerglass stock. (click to enlarge photo below)

When it was a regular M1A it would shoot heavier bullets and handloads, AFTER I had the chamber and action worked on by Craig Parker. The chamber and throat were originally too tight from the factory.

Then I had it cut down so I could take it with me in a plane or car or ATV while out fighting crime and suppressing evil.

After that point, it would never shoot heavy bullets. Plus it went from a sub MOA rifle to a 2 MOA short rifle. While it is handy due to the shortened length, it still weighs darn near as much as a regular M1A. All in all, the answer to a question nobody asked.

I originally went to the M1A because it was much more accurate than my FN. But after making it as handy as the FN, I lost any accuracy advantage.
 

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Socom 16

A friend of mine has a SOCOM 16 and it shot fine with all factory ammo. When he tried to shoot some reloads they would not function the action enough to eject the empty case even when we tried a max load, and when the empty case was ejected they would not even be warm. After scratching our heads a couple days we figured out the problem with the reloads, they were not re-sized all the way. After we re-sized the cases with the die adjusted all the way down the rifle has not missed a lick. That may be something to check, it sure made his sick.

J.B.
 
Not a resizing issue either. They shoot fine out of my gun and I had some 147 grain handloads that shot great out of it. I think the issue is just with the gas system and/or barrel length/twist. I bet they could just increase the barrel twist and open up the gas port a little and that would solve the issue. I think the barrel twist is too slow because the groups were so huge and I think the gas was not enough because it would not cycle. I think float pilot's experience is probably proof of that.
 
Sounds like the rifle doesn't like that ammo, for what ever reason. When you go against the gun manufacturers ammo reccomendations, things tend to not go too well.
 
With the SOCOM, it's usually a gas port that is smaller than needed and
an alignment problem with the corresponding port on the gas cylinder.

You could try a USGI or SEI gas cylinder and opening up the port on the
barrel to 3/32.
 
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