M4 and M16 weight
- Thread starter Roboss
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C-grunt
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That's really going to depend on what you consider standard issue. Standard optics, lasers, and lights are going to differ from unit to unit. Also depends on if you are talking the M4, M4A1, M4 SOPMOD, M4 SOPMOD block ii, M16A2, M16A4.
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gotboostvr
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Are you asking about just the bare, base rifle? With or without carry handle? No mag, empty mag, or fully loaded?
Or one with everything attached all-up with optic, sling, lights, lasers, forward grip, rail covers, duct tape etc....
Or one with everything attached all-up with optic, sling, lights, lasers, forward grip, rail covers, duct tape etc....
Both really. I am just curious how heavy is too heavy for a rifle a soldier has to carry for so long.
gotboostvr
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Base weight is around 7 pounds. Fully equipped will run 9.5-10.5 pounds depending on specifics.
Mosin Bubba
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As others have said, the exact numbers are going to vary, but it's probably a pound of difference between the two.
I haven't served, so I'm not going to call what I've handled an M16, but 20 inch ARs subjectively feel heavier than an extra pound vs the carbines when they're in your hands. Almost all that extra weight comes from the longer barrel, which pulls down on the end of the rifle when you're aiming it and makes it react more slowly when you're handling or swinging it. It's not bad but it's noticeable.
I haven't served, so I'm not going to call what I've handled an M16, but 20 inch ARs subjectively feel heavier than an extra pound vs the carbines when they're in your hands. Almost all that extra weight comes from the longer barrel, which pulls down on the end of the rifle when you're aiming it and makes it react more slowly when you're handling or swinging it. It's not bad but it's noticeable.
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CapnMac
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This question has been asked for close to two centuries now, and the answer has never been universally identified.
M-1903 was about 7 pounds; Garand was 9--the contemporary BAR (1918A2) was 19 pounds; all three of those were hand carried across Europe, the Pacific, and India-Burma-China.
M-14 runs to 9-10 pounds, the E4/M15 version running to 12-13 pounds; contemporaneously, the M-60 was a svelte 23 pounds. Which made the 6-7 pound M16 seem weightless at the time.
Rifles do not, per se, win wars; they are carried by, and identify, Riflemen. (Artillery and related fires clears the way so that riflemen can stand and hold the ground.) So, a rifle is what riflemen carry, and they weigh what rifles weigh.
Now, weight is a consideration, the ammo weight particularly.
Add 2 pounds per rifle and 3 pound more for ammo for a 13 man squad, and that weight will add up. In a 40-45 man Platoon, it goes up even more.
d2wing
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I original M-16 A1 weighted 6.3 lbs, which is what I was issued. After I built an A2 I was disappoint at how much heavier it was especially the barrel. Made a light fast handling combat rifle into something not so much. Now days I kinda prefer an M4 style. Tempted to build a one with a 20 inch pencil barrel.
Specifically purpose built the lightest M4 type (m4gery) I could, using reasonably priced components, getting the lightest ones I could find.
This was just prior to Covid. Rifle checks in at 6 pounds, 2 ounces, with a scope and full 20 round mag. Which is about the same weight as
a lightweight bolt-action hunting rifle. Ran about 800 bucks, if I had wanted to spend another 1200 to 1500, I could have probably gotten the weight down to 5 pounds even, but the rifle would have cost as much as Daniel Defense's finest.
So, at the end of the day, it looks like minimum 6 pounds, is the magic number. At this weight, without the rigors of a military loadout, this is a very easy rifle to carry. For walking the woods, and hunting.
This was just prior to Covid. Rifle checks in at 6 pounds, 2 ounces, with a scope and full 20 round mag. Which is about the same weight as
a lightweight bolt-action hunting rifle. Ran about 800 bucks, if I had wanted to spend another 1200 to 1500, I could have probably gotten the weight down to 5 pounds even, but the rifle would have cost as much as Daniel Defense's finest.
So, at the end of the day, it looks like minimum 6 pounds, is the magic number. At this weight, without the rigors of a military loadout, this is a very easy rifle to carry. For walking the woods, and hunting.
MachIVshooter
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When I did my A2 clone, the barrel profile is the one thing I didn't hold true on, used a LW. Glad I did, makes for a much better balanced rifle.
Ugly Sauce
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Whatever the weight of the rifle, you will get used to it. An M1 will "feel" the same to someone who carries it often, as a M16A1 "feels" to one who carries it often. It's more of a matter of physical conditioning. If you never carry the rifle on a regular basis, or train with it on a regular basis, (or at all) or spend whole days with it, then I suppose the lightest rifle possible would be "ideal". There is no magic number however, what ever the rifle weighs, you will get used to it, unless it never leaves the house except to go to the rifle range. If one truly needs a rifle in the six pound range, they truly need some physical training. Do some push-ups and run a couple of miles every other day. 
CapnMac
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We probably need OP, @Roboss ,to chime in here--I'm guessing the initial question was in regard to whether lighter or heavier infantry rifles were better/worse.
Which may be a rabbit hole, as trends along that line have gone to either extreme of the course of military history.
It's a little bit like whether military packs loads are larger or smaller than any given range of dates; and whether the material used mattered. USArmy went from cotton canvas M-56 LBE to nylon LC gear, and "saved" about a pound in weight, to have about 2# of extra gear added on.
Which may be a rabbit hole, as trends along that line have gone to either extreme of the course of military history.
It's a little bit like whether military packs loads are larger or smaller than any given range of dates; and whether the material used mattered. USArmy went from cotton canvas M-56 LBE to nylon LC gear, and "saved" about a pound in weight, to have about 2# of extra gear added on.
My question has been pretty much answered. I just wanted to know the standard weight of a soldiers rifle and now I know that those answers can vary. Thanks everyone.
d2wing
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Yeah, I didn't think about the weight of the M-14 that I was issued and had on my first tour. When I got my 6.3 Lbs. M-16 it felt really light. I didn't think anymore about it until my mission called for an M-60. But I wasn't Infantry so I didn't have to carry it that much.Whatever the weight of the rifle, you will get used to it. An M1 will "feel" the same to someone who carries it often, as a M16A1 "feels" to one who carries it often. It's more of a matter of physical conditioning. If you never carry the rifle on a regular basis, or train with it on a regular basis, (or at all) or spend whole days with it, then I suppose the lightest rifle possible would be "ideal". There is no magic number however, what ever the rifle weighs, you will get used to it, unless it never leaves the house except to go to the rifle range. If one truly needs a rifle in the six pound range, they truly need some physical training. Do some push-ups and run a couple of miles every other day.
Id have liked the "A2" I assembled a lot better if id done that. It didn't feel that heavy, but the nose was where all the weight was.
Seamaster31
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Anybody that thinks the original m16 is light has not carried one all day, and sometimes all night, through rough and sometimes unfriendly country. I suppose the fellows that were in the rear with the gear had a different opinion, but when a fellow is short on sleep, and in more difficult situations everything feels different and the little m16 seemed to be made from lead. When it was required I did carry a Pig which started out weighing 24 lbs. but gained weight with every step. Compared to a Pig the m16 was indeed light.
C-grunt
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When you are spending a whole day clearing city blocks and having multi hour firefights, the weight difference in weapons becomes very very apparent.
I bet the guys that humped the mountain of Afghanistan and the jungles of Vietnam would agree
I bet the guys that humped the mountain of Afghanistan and the jungles of Vietnam would agree
I know what you mean, I was issued the m16A1 and even though it was light in training, it was real heavy after humping it for days in the hot wet bush. Always had extra mags, belt for the pig, maybe a LAAW, besides personal equipment.
I have shot a number of heavier ARs in the field, they carried OK, but I picked up a 7.5 lb patrol rifle for casual use. No optics, I still use the carring handle.
I have shot a number of heavier ARs in the field, they carried OK, but I picked up a 7.5 lb patrol rifle for casual use. No optics, I still use the carring handle.
desidog
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While rifle weight matters, a rifle is a small percentage of a soldier’s kit. Many a grunt has carried an M4/16... but also carried belts for the SAW or 60. Add some claymores, rations, armor, water, binos, battle pack of ammo, MOPP suit, med kit, NVG’s, etc etc etc. also, if it’s a stealthy crew, you’ll be carrying out your own excrement...
if I’m carrying the Barrett, at 36#, you are carrying some of the ammo... fair is fair.
/that said, I’d always carry my own **** tickets.
if I’m carrying the Barrett, at 36#, you are carrying some of the ammo... fair is fair.
/that said, I’d always carry my own **** tickets.
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High Plains
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The M4 I carried in the ‘stan had a red dot optic on top of the receiver, a four sided Picatinny barrel guard holding a forward grip, a green laser and an IR floodlight. A few times I and a flashlight on it. All that and a 30 round magazine———-I dont know what it weighed. I know my extra magazines on the vest were an arm rest of sorts for my L arm as I held the pistol grip with the other hand.
I know the rifle, 240 additional rounds of ammo, M9 pistol and ammo, radio, ballistic vest/plates, helmet and 3 liter Camelback took me from 215lbs up to 290.
I know the rifle, 240 additional rounds of ammo, M9 pistol and ammo, radio, ballistic vest/plates, helmet and 3 liter Camelback took me from 215lbs up to 290.
The only AR-15 that I have put on a scale is my 26" heavy barrel 204 Ruger prairie dog AR-15. It tips the scales empty of ammunition at just short of 13 pounds.
My Service Rifle competition AR-15's with their heavy 20" barrels but otherwise in an A-2 configuration weigh less than an M1 Garand but I've never put either on a scale.
My various 223 Remington and 300m Blackout AR-15's with 16 to 18 inch barrels feel like they weigh "nothing" but again, I have not put them on a scale.
Not very precise weights but cn give you a idea on the range of weights.
My Service Rifle competition AR-15's with their heavy 20" barrels but otherwise in an A-2 configuration weigh less than an M1 Garand but I've never put either on a scale.
My various 223 Remington and 300m Blackout AR-15's with 16 to 18 inch barrels feel like they weigh "nothing" but again, I have not put them on a scale.
Not very precise weights but cn give you a idea on the range of weights.
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