MA non-res LTC approved firearms...Why no Taurus?!

[Manedwolf]

On the latest version of their 'approved firearms'...

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/approved_firearms_roster_02_2006_revised.pdf

There is not a SINGLE Taurus pistol mentioned, though the entire Kahr lineup is there.

What has MA got against Taurus? And how can they approve the Beretta 92FS but not the Taurus PT92?

They approve some Charters but none of the Taurus MilPros, 24/7s, any of them, so it's certainly not "safety". Is it whatever companies have paid the licensing authorities a significant sum, or what?

 

[Old Fuff]

I suspect that the manufacturer has to pay to have their product tested, and Taurus decided to not submit to blackmail.

 

[Devonai]

Old Fuff is correct. The manufacturer must front the cash for the testing procedures, which last I checked was $2k per model.

Wait a minute... what does this have to do with non-resident LTCs?

 

[Manedwolf]

Wait a minute... what does this have to do with non-resident LTCs?

Because I live in the free state to the north of MA, Boston has gotten so dangerous that I'd not THINK of going unarmed in the city, and I have to for some business. So I was looking at the nonresident LTCs.

My carry piece is a Taurus MilPro PT745. Which isn't allowed. Neither is the fullsized PT92. Neither is the absolute BUG Jetfire.

So EVERYTHING I own is illegal in MA. I won't even go into the folding carbine laptop bag, etc, which would likely make the MA authorities' heads pop off if it was shown to them. Yay!

 

[Gray Peterson]

Listen to me, the EOPS list does not have to do with carry. It has to do with purchasing of firearms in Massachusetts, which you cannot do as a non-massachusetts resident.

You can move into Mass with all the "non-approved" firearms you want. You can even carry them. That list only applies to buying from dealers in MA, which you won't do anyway.

 

[Manedwolf]

Listen to me, the EOPS list does not have to do with carry. It has to do with purchasing of firearms in Massachusetts, which you cannot do as a non-massachusetts resident.

You can move into Mass with all the "non-approved" firearms you want. You can even carry them. That list only applies to buying from dealers in MA, which you won't do anyway.

Really? Well, in that case, are hi-caps still illegal to have/carry?

 

[Gray Peterson]

If they were made after September 13, 1994, then the answer is yes.

 

[Devonai]

Lonnie Wilson is absolutely right. Furthermore, If I move back to Massachusetts (God forbid) I can keep and carry all of my AG-verboten pistols after registering them with the State Police via a form FA-10 (available at any police station). I simply cannot sell them to another Mass resident. A dealer may buy them, but he can't sell the pistol within the state either, so occasionally you'll see a pistol on the shelf that says "out of state purchasers only."

As you know, Massachusetts enacted it's own Assault Weapons Ban. As a non-resident I wouldn't bat an eyelash about their stupid rules, but if you really want to cover your butt I suppose you should carry non-LEO-marked pistol mags.

 

[cbsbyte]

You have to remember that the handguns also have to pass the Attorney Generals requirements, before they can be sold in state. Hence Kahr and Glock pistols have passed the state tests, after being submitted by the two companies, but the AG refuses to allow them to be sold in the state claming they didn't pass his own criteria. The only Kahrs and Glocks we can own must have been registered in the state before 1998. Taraus, and many other companies are smart in not wanting to pay very high fees for each model of their pistols to be testd, only to be blocked for sale by the AG. Glock went through this a few years ago, and had to recall all their new pistols that where sold in state. I doubt they will ever resubmit their pistols to be tested.

Also an LTC does not allow one to carry but only to own a handgun and large capacity longgun. You would need a LTC Class A, marked, "All lawful purposes" to legally carry in the state. And non-residents have to apply for an LTC through the State Police. Good luck in getting one.

http://www.goal.org/misc/faq/faq.html

 

[Tory]

Mass misinformation

First, as has already been pointed out, ManedWolf is confusing apples with pomegranates. The AFR has absolutely nothing to do with what can or cannot be carried on an LTC/A, whether resident or non-resident. I have no idea where he got that inane notion.

If I move back to Massachusetts (God forbid) I can keep and carry all of my AG-verboten pistols after registering them with the State Police via a form FA-10 (available at any police station). I simply cannot sell them to another Mass resident. A dealer may buy them, but he can't sell the pistol within the state either, so occasionally you'll see a pistol on the shelf that says "out of state purchasers only."

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

There is NO requirement for a new resident to "register the guns with the State Police." First, because there is no need to register the guns you owned BEFORE moving here; second, because the State Police have NOTHING to do with it.

What new residents MUST do is apply for the appropriate license within 60 days.

Moreover, our NON-resident expert on Mass. firearms law has it BASS-ACKWARDS.

You absolutely CAN sell the guns you brought with you to a Mass. resident in a private transfer (which will require the FA-10 mentioned). It is the Mass. DEALER who likely won't touch your guns and, if so, only for an out-of-state sale.

Got a question about Mass gun laws? Start here: www.goal.org

 

[Devonai]

What is up with your attitude problem? We were having a simple discussion before you burst in, spilled your drink on a hot blonde, and flashed your titanium-plated Desert Eagle for the whole place to see.

If you're right, your right, and no self-serving sanctimonious tone is necessary. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it, but the more rude you are the more your information seems dubious, no matter how right the facts may be.

I was told flat-out by a Lieutenant on the Beverly Police Department that I had to register any firearms I brought back after moving out of state. If he is putting out bad information, please call them immediately. I'm sure they'll appreciate being talked down to as long as your information is correct.

 

[Manedwolf]

First, as has already been pointed out, ManedWolf is confusing apples with pomegranates. The AFR has absolutely nothing to do with what can or cannot be carried on an LTC/A, whether resident or non-resident. I have no idea where he got that inane notion.

Where? The confusing, unhelpful and obfuscating Mass firearms regs and forms government websites. And packing.org didn't clear it up, either.

It's a bit rude to call someone's notion 'inane' when the fact is, I could have cared LESS about Massachusetts' freaking obscene third-world-dictatorial socialist/communist firearms laws until I've had to go in there for business. I don't live there, I live in a free state. So therefore I've just started looking at them for a non-resident LTC application...and ran across the Approved Firearms list with no further clarification as to what that meant. It's bad enough that just driving into the state requires taking it apart, rounds out of mag, gun locked up in trunk in locked container or magazine not with it and the firing pin taken out and duct-taped to your forehead or whatever the hell the laws are now.

If I and others appear to be confused by MA's labyrinthine laws, does that mean it's the citizens' fault, or the government's? Just in asking other people, I've heard about half a dozen conflicting opinions as to what the laws there are.

Here, if you're not a felon and are of age, you can buy a gun. If you want a CCW, you fill out one form, pay $10, and the police give it to you with a smile. You can buy anything you want, no restrictions on capacity or any of that. My larger pistol has 17rds and my carbine has 20rds, and the state could care less. So excuse me for not being familiar with the Soviet-style bureacratic maze of my neighbor to the south, hm?

 

[FPrice]

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Is this scrivener???

 

[real_name]

Tory always posts like that, he's an over-caffeinated bundle of fun masquerading as an online Corrections Officer.
Just put him on your 'ignore' list, it's easier than taking a Xanax every time he comes online.

 

[Tory]

Reality check for the apologists

It's bad enough that just driving into the state requires taking it apart, rounds out of mag, gun locked up in trunk in locked container or magazine not with it and the firing pin taken out and duct-taped to your forehead or whatever the hell the laws are now.

First, you misstate the transportation requirements.

Second, unless you are licensed by Massachusetts, going to a show or competition with the gun, or passing through it to someplace you ARE allowed to have the gun in question, you have no business being in Mass. with a gun. Period.

Now on to your claim about there being no information about what the AFR pertains to. It's utter BS. From the roster itself - the one you claim to have read:

Pursuant to the requirements of 501 CMR 7.03; firearms dealers should note the following warning:

TRANSFERS OF HANDGUNS ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S HANDGUN SALES REGULATIONS; 940 C.M.R. 16.00 ET SEQ. FIREARMS ON THIS ROSTER DO NOT NECESSARILY COMPLY WITH THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S HANDGUN SALES REGULATIONS. INFORMATION ABOUT THOSE REGULATIONS CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE OFFICE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND CAN BE ACCESSED ON THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S WEBSITE; WWW.AGO.STATE.MA.US.

The Attorney General is providing all licensed gun dealers in Massachusetts with specific information on how this Approved Firearms Roster relates to the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations (Enforcement Notice). Enforcement Notice; as well as other information regarding the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations; can be obtained at the Attorney General’s web site – http://www.ago.state.ma.us/con_pro/guns.asp − and from the Office of the Attorney General.

So - just what part of the oft-repeated HANDGUN SALES could you not grasp?

On to those who think the police are a reliable source of firearms law information:

Iwas told flat-out by a Lieutenant on the Beverly Police Department that I had to register any firearms I brought back after moving out of state. If he is putting out bad information, please call them immediately.

YOU'RE the one getting - and accepting - bogus info. That makes YOU the one with the problem. I'm not doing ALL your work for you.

Here's a hint for both you and your learned lieutenant:

Actually read MGL c. 140, s. 128B. It applies to RESIDENTS purchasing guns outside the state; not NON-residents moving into the state.

If he STILL needs a clue, tell him to get Chief Glidden's book (which any competent department has) and read "s.128B Notes" on page 45, p. 2. The part where it expressly states: "There is no requirement for non residents to 'register' their guns when they move into the state."

But feel free to continue disseminating false information because you're the warm, fuzzy type who likes to help..........

 

[FPrice]

Tory always posts like that, he's an over-caffeinated bundle of fun masquerading as an online Corrections Officer.
Just put him on your 'ignore' list, it's easier than taking a Xanax every time he comes online.

I think that I recognize him from another firearms forum. And his attitude really doesn't bother me. But thanks for the info.

 

[FPrice]

Yep. That's scrivener.

 

[Devonai]

YOU'RE the one getting - and accepting - bogus info. That makes YOU the one with the problem. I'm not doing ALL your work for you.

And yet, you proceeded to do just that!

Dude, I don't know why you feel the need to put out information in the most self-righteous and insulting manner possible, but I suppose I can forgive your latent anger at being a resident of Massachusetts. Perhaps FPrice can give you some tips on how to better manage your anger, he doesn't seem to suffer from the same malady.

 

[Manedwolf]

Second, unless you are licensed by Massachusetts, going to a show or competition with the gun, or passing through it to someplace you ARE allowed to have the gun in question, you have no business being in Mass. with a gun. Period.

Emphasis mine. I never thought I'd see that said on this forum. Whoops! My mistake, you're right. I still thought it was part of America and might still be covered by that pesky old second amendment in SOME way. Silly me!
(When were they changing the state flag to red, again? Soon?)

Because there's some border roads along the south of my state that dip slightly into MA and back again...and a shopping area of south Nashua that continues into Tyngsboro, MA. I guess they just haven't installed the checkpoints, concertina wire and people shouting "papers! gun search! schnell!" yet.

And it would seem to me that your shouting is in...defense of MA's socialist firearms policies? No, they are NOT simple. They're a hell of bureaucratic nonsense and nitpicking, and nobody has any business calling them "easy". If you want to help, help, if you want to be condescending, nobody needs that sort of help.

Right now, you're coming across like a Soviet citizen yelling about how easy it is to stand in lines for coffee and potatoes with the appropriate requisition forms. Every other MA resident I've talked to never calls it simple, they call it a lot of things that aren't printable here. So no, I'm not used to socialistic state control, the whole concept of what MA does is alien to me.

Lonnie Wilson, Devonai, cbsbyte and others provided HELPFUL information.

 

[Tory]

Answer the question:

So - just what part of the oft-repeated HANDGUN SALES could you not grasp?

And spare us your transparent attempts at misdirection.

And have fun explaining the roads "that dip slightly into MA" if you are found on the wrong side of the border without a license.

I didn't say it was fair; I didn't say it was right; I said what was the law.

Deal with it.

 

[Tory]

Another officious intermeddler

And yet, you proceeded to do just that

NO; I left the phone call for YOU - as I expressly said I would do. So much for your reading comprehension....

Then again, your pontifications about a cop in a town you don't live in, located in a state you don't live in, prove all that needs be shown about your "qualifications" to discourse on this subject.

A fence along the NH border seems like the Next Great Idea........

 

[Manedwolf]

A fence along the NH border seems like the Next Great Idea........

YES IT DOES! Keep the heroin-heads down in Lowell/Lawrence. They're the only trouble we've had here in a long time.

Man. You're ripping on a state that's far more freedom-minded than yours, and that trusts its citizens with RKBA by default. That's...really something.

 

[Devonai]

I lived in Massachusetts for 13 years, and six of those in Beverly, where I maintained a Class A LTC. The Beverly Police Department was extremely helpful with any questions I had, and I suppose that if the guy had to be wrong, it was better to err on the side of caution.

However, I no longer needed to call the Beverly Police Department after you so deftly and thoroughly cited all of the relevant information. I have faith that a well-versed person like yourself experiencing such righteous indignation would immediately attempt to contact any law enforcement agency that dispersed false information! I could only be a fraction of the effort needed to keep up with so many careless internet users like myself. If you won't do it, who will?

 

[cbsbyte]

The moral of the story is never trust some to tell you the facts if that person is not sure of it themseleves. You have to realize many police officers and dept heads in Mass don't actually know Mass gun laws in detail. They are not Attorneys. At times they can make up stuff to best suit there knowledge of the facts. If you have questions about Mass law, first contact GOAL. They have access to Attorneys who are up to date on Mass gun laws. There is already too much misinformation out on the net about Mass laws, it will, if not already get someone arrested because they listened to the wrong person. Here is the link to their site.

http://www.goal.org/

 

[Tory]

Here's a better idea:

The Beverly Police Department was extremely helpful with any questions I had, and I suppose that if the guy had to be wrong, it was better to err on the side of caution.

Try to think outside your little box.

If he doesn't know what he's talking about, he should shut up until he does.

A concept you would do well to first grasp and then adopt.

As for your desperate fixation on MY calling the Beverly PD, I've told you twice already: YOU made the claim, YOU supposedly know the lieutenant; YOU make the call. Suck it up and stop offloading your responsiblities on me.