Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

magazine dirt

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by x_wrench, Apr 14, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. x_wrench

    x_wrench Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    michigan
    i notice that on all the training video's that they always drop the magazines in the dirt, time after time after time. while i certainly understand the drill, it does make me wonder if they pick these up and reuse them full of dirt, or if they have a full time person on staff doing nothing except cleaning thousands of magazines a day. i clean my mags after every shooting session. just with burnt powder residue i can feel the grit loading rounds. if i do happen to drop one in the dirt, i set it aside and do not use it the rest of the day. i suppose a gun will run with dirty mags, but would you really want all that dirt grinding away at your firearm? i would not!
     
  2. Averageman

    Averageman Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,439
    Location:
    Texas
    Not everyone does, nor is it necassary.
    Unlike the Big .Mil, you pay for your magazines and wont get a free resupply. I suggest you look at a drop pouch.
     
  3. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Johnson City, TN
    If realistic training is what you want, you have to get used to dropping your magazines in the dirt and maybe even dinging your gun up a little. There is an old saying, "You will fight as you have trained." If you train yourself to always carefully store your mags in a pouch or range bag or whatever, you will find yourself wanting to do this in a gunfight. :uhoh: Within reason, a military/police service handgun can handle a little dirt. And you can always perform your maintenance during a lunch break or something. Finally, not all of your practice really needs to be done this way. You can easily "dry"-practice speed reloading in your home and drop your mags on carpet or even a gym mat. (Be sure to follow all safety rules, and dummy rounds or so-called "training mags" are preferable.)
     
  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Now you know why folks advise you to run your magazines dry.

    During a class or training, when I drop them in dirt or sand, I just shake them out and put them back in the rotation.

    When they drop in mud, I just swish them out in the standing water and shake the water out
     
  5. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    What he said.
     
  6. The Lone Haranguer

    The Lone Haranguer Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    11,717
    Location:
    Johnson City, TN
    But not until after your drill or course of fire is over, or during a designated break, right?

    There is a book I've referenced multiple times, Guns, Bullets and Gunfights by Jim Cirillo, a police gunfighter of some note. He wrote of "fighting as you have trained" (not his words) leading to some bizarre and dangerous situations, such as trying to pick up brass during or after the fight (because they were required to pick it up off the training grounds), or trying to stuff coins into revolver cylinders because in training they carried loose rounds in their pockets but their reloads in a belt pouch on duty. :eek: In some of my own self-training, I used to practice tossing revolver speed strips well clear when reloading and not looking where they went. This resulted in some of them being lost. :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2012
  7. coalman

    coalman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    670
    When I'm gaming I drop my mag where I drop my mag. Clean them as needed. I would not select a gun where I even worried about it given all that's available.
     
  8. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    12,705
    Location:
    In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine.
    Just realize, there are SOME drills where you DO NEED to let the mag fall free. (Like emergency reloads.) But even when you practice this stuff, you can use a ground cover to keep them out of the dirt. When you are at an intensive rifle course, do the best you can, clean them before and after, and USE GOOD MAGAZINES that you trust to run even if they get a little dirty.

    But yes, for the vast majority of operations, use a drop pouch.
     
  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Yes, sorry I wasn't more clear, I only recover my mags after a course/string of fire is completed.

    The only exception is in IDPA competition, where the rules mandate that you not leave live ammo when moving between shooting positions. I understand the logic, but it makes about as much sense in the real world as not being able to reload in the open (when moving between, or to, cover positions)
     
  10. EddieNFL

    EddieNFL member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    3,329
    Thank USPSA.
     
  11. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Messages:
    5,961
    Location:
    Near Camp Perry
    How much dirt gets in a magazine when it hits the ground anyway?

    It isn't buried or ground into the dirt with your heel, it isn't getting sand kicked on top of it, and an empty magazine doesn't have that many openings anyway. (if it isn't empty, it is malfunctioning already, so who cares?)

    Dump 'em and reload, do it on grass or a carpet scrap if concrete or dirt make you uncomfortable. Figuring out what to do with your empty magazine slows down retrieving your full magazine, which action might you need to do RIGHT NOW, and which action might matter some time later?
     
  12. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,298
    When practicing or shooting USPSA, I carry a cloth rag in my shooting bag. Any mag that hits the ground I pop the floor plate off and run the rag through the mag. Only takes a few seconds to do. It doesn't take much sand in the magazine to start jamming a gun.
     
  13. moxie

    moxie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,069
    Location:
    Erath Co., TX
    And when you do get around to cleaning your mags, Hoppe's # 9 only, wiped dry with a cotton cloth (old undershirt).
     
  14. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    I know, it was a major cultural shock.

    I even cited examples that LEAs were standardizing on speed reloads in training...you can pick up your dropped mag if you have time (shooting over or behind cover)...but the Match Director wouldn't budge. "It's the way Bill Wilson wants it"
     
  15. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Now you've peaked my interest.

    Which pistol has magazines with magazine floorplates that pop off, but which won't run with some sand in them?
     
  16. Blackstone

    Blackstone Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    718
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Wasn't it the Newhall shooting where the practice of carefully putting away your spent brass and not dumping it onto the ground was scrutinised? The officers wouldn't dare dump their brass on the lovely lawns of the academy whilst training, and that behaviour carried on during an actual shootout, leading to four officers killed.
     
  17. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,298
    STI 2011. You might be able to drop them a couple times, but they will start jamming pretty soon after that. Not worth it in a competition.

    When I first started competing I was using a HK USP. I was dropping the mags in the dirt all the time and not thinking about it. Then it jammed on me in a match. When I took the floor plate off sand poured out of the mag. Since then I clean them every time.
     
  18. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Thank you

    Interesting, I didn't realize they were running that tight. I just ran an STI Trojan through a 1000 round class at Gunsite, including going to the ground in a gully, and it ran fine...and I never cleaned it during the week
     
  19. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Not that it wasn't a good teaching point and an attention getter in the academy, but...it didn't happen. An investigating officer in the case shared with me that there was no spent brass in the officer's pockets.

    BTW: the story has a number of versions:
    1. they put the brass in the pockets because they didn't like to police their brass after each string of fire
    2. they looked for the brass can to put their brass in and not being able to fine it, put the brass in their pockets.

    There isn't even any grass between the firing lines at the Calif. Highway Patrol Academy
     
  20. 56hawk

    56hawk Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,298
    Might be the difference between 9 round magazines and 26 round magazines.
     
  21. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    18,693
    Location:
    northern california
    Usually the single stacks are more finicky as there is more contact between rounds and the walls if the tube. There is a lot of open space, between the cartridges, in staggered mags for dirt/sand to fall through
     
  22. ChCx2744

    ChCx2744 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,225
    I'm going to be a realist. I also believe in training how you would fight. If you are going to train with a gun you carry, you need to expect that gun and it's magazine(s) to become a little dirty or scuffed up. In a real gun fight, when your mag goes dry and you go to reload a full mag into your gun, that empty mag has just become an expendable object. You have no time to worry about that mag any more. The only thing that matters right now is that full mag and the gun in your hand. Dropping an empty mag onto a hard surface from 4-5 feet every now and then isn't going to do too much damage. If it does, you should have extras, because unlike the gun itself, magazines need to be viewed as expendable objects.
     
  23. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    14,645
    Location:
    Centennial, CO
    An empty magazine is useless. It takes some 'doing' to get into that mindest.

    Better to buy enough mags (so you won't feel bad about dinging a few) if you are going to do training like that.

    I know pistol mags can be expensive but I have never worried about p-mags for my rifle. And I have dumped dirt out of mags that I picked up later.

    I have also jammed a rifle with a mag full of dirt that I fumbled and dropped, it happens.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  24. x_wrench

    x_wrench Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2010
    Messages:
    833
    Location:
    michigan
    well, i hope i never get into a gunfight. but if i do, i KNOW that the empty mags are expendable. i would not even give them a second thought. but, one thing this tread has awakened me to, is that i do need to practice swapping mags in a hurry. something that i currently do not do. most likely because my "range" area, which is in the woods near my home, is all sand. i did, once, drop my pistol into mud. i realized at that moment, that i probably should see if it would run in that condition. so i simply gave it one good shake, and fired all 12 rounds out of it. it ran fine, but i could feel the grit in the slide area. so i stopped shooting it for the day. seeing if it will function, and wearing it out are two different things. i guess i will practice shooting out there, and practice changing mags at home.
     
  25. moxie

    moxie Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,069
    Location:
    Erath Co., TX
    Lay out an old king size sheet. If you place it right, it'll allow you to drop your mags on it and catch a lot of your brass.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page