I know many oppose this device, but I like the idea. It seems it would be a real boon to those who wrestle with offenders, etc. Is it fair to damn the device because of the slim possibility that your mags are lost and you are left with only the single, chambered round? I have never heard of one failing and disabling a weapon. My work as an armed, probation/parole officer brings me into frequent, casual contact with offenders. Your thoughts?
Magazine disconnect safety
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Lonestar49
Member
...
Personally, I think it has merit, in that, as you say, in some kind of struggle for one's gun, one could pop the mag button and disable the gun if it was looking like one was losing the battle.. And, I think many an AD or ND has occurred for just this reason, mag out, hammer cocked, one in the chamber and, brain fart, shot occurs.
Ls
Personally, I think it has merit, in that, as you say, in some kind of struggle for one's gun, one could pop the mag button and disable the gun if it was looking like one was losing the battle.. And, I think many an AD or ND has occurred for just this reason, mag out, hammer cocked, one in the chamber and, brain fart, shot occurs.
Ls
jaydubya
Member
My 1967 Browning Hi Power still has the magazine safety installed. Never a problem with the trigger being gritty or whatnot. Not even when new.
Cordially, Jack
Cordially, Jack
Chipperman
Member
I do not like them on a carry gun. It's not an issue of losing the magazine. You cannot perform a tactical reload with one. While changing your mag, your gun is a paperweight.
RecoilRob
Member
And, if you read much about the Ruger P345, you WILL see examples of pistols failing to fire because of the mag safety malfunctioning.
Not really bashing the 345 as it is one of my favorite pistols....since I removed the mag safety.
Not really bashing the 345 as it is one of my favorite pistols....since I removed the mag safety.
Mad Magyar
Member
I know Mas A.has documented lives being saved among LEO's. As far as tactical reloads being a handicap amongst the civilian population; just another over-rated drill, a.k.a "time filler" that out-dated instructors use....
Yes, I'm serious....
Yes, I'm serious....The Lone Haranguer
Member
I view magazine safeties as a benign feature -- neither helping nor hurting -- and would not reject an otherwise nice gun because of it. I recently acquired a delightful little pistol -- a S&W 3913 LadySmith -- and was not bothered by its mag safety in the least.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
I see both sides of the story. They do tend to make the trigger gritty and many times an empty mag. will not fall free.
CajunBass
Member
I wouldn't buy a gun because it has a magazine safety.
I wouldn't not buy a gun because it has a magazine safety.
I wouldn't not buy a gun because it has a magazine safety.
There are problems with mag disconnect devices besides just not being able to fire the chambered round during a mag change.
On the Browning High Power the mag disconnect rubs against the magazine and makes the mags not eject cleanly. It also makes the trigger pull grittier.
The one good thing about the mag disconnect on the High Power though is that when the mag is out the trigger goes slack. If you pull the trigger there is absolutely no resistance and you can instantly tell that the mag disconnect has been engaged and the gun isn't going to fire. That's good because if you haven't fully inserted the mag you can tell right away and tapping on the mag to fully seat it will solve the problem and allow the gun to fire.
The mag disconnect on the Ruger 345 though is, in my opinion, very poorly designed. With the mag out the trigger still has the normal resistance and "feel." You could have the mag not quite fully seated and, since the trigger feels the same, not realize that is the problem. You'd pull the trigger, everything would feel the same to you, except the gun would go "click" instead of "Bang." That's bad. Granted, a "Tap - Rack- Ready," drill should fix the problem, but I think the Browning's design where the trigger goes slack is a better idea.
The other problem with the mag disconnect on the Ruger is that on the early guns the small parts of the disconnect would be damaged if you dry-fired without the magazine in place. This would make the gun not fire when the loaded mag was in the gun. Over at the Ruger forum they call this the "Click - no bang" problem. Ruger has redesigned the part since then and I don't believe it's a problem with the current guns.
This just shows that even if the "tactical" drawbacks of a mag disconnect safety don't bother you, there are still other potential problems to consider.
On the Browning High Power the mag disconnect rubs against the magazine and makes the mags not eject cleanly. It also makes the trigger pull grittier.
The one good thing about the mag disconnect on the High Power though is that when the mag is out the trigger goes slack. If you pull the trigger there is absolutely no resistance and you can instantly tell that the mag disconnect has been engaged and the gun isn't going to fire. That's good because if you haven't fully inserted the mag you can tell right away and tapping on the mag to fully seat it will solve the problem and allow the gun to fire.
The mag disconnect on the Ruger 345 though is, in my opinion, very poorly designed. With the mag out the trigger still has the normal resistance and "feel." You could have the mag not quite fully seated and, since the trigger feels the same, not realize that is the problem. You'd pull the trigger, everything would feel the same to you, except the gun would go "click" instead of "Bang." That's bad. Granted, a "Tap - Rack- Ready," drill should fix the problem, but I think the Browning's design where the trigger goes slack is a better idea.
The other problem with the mag disconnect on the Ruger is that on the early guns the small parts of the disconnect would be damaged if you dry-fired without the magazine in place. This would make the gun not fire when the loaded mag was in the gun. Over at the Ruger forum they call this the "Click - no bang" problem. Ruger has redesigned the part since then and I don't believe it's a problem with the current guns.
This just shows that even if the "tactical" drawbacks of a mag disconnect safety don't bother you, there are still other potential problems to consider.
boomer1911a1
Member
Trebor:
Thanks for the details on the Browning and the Ruger. Well presented!
As for the point of this thread: I like having them. I like the thought of having a "kill switch" for that fantasy life-or-death struggle. I suppose if I really noticed a difference in the trigger pull, I might feel differently, but it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Thanks for the details on the Browning and the Ruger. Well presented!
As for the point of this thread: I like having them. I like the thought of having a "kill switch" for that fantasy life-or-death struggle.
I suppose if I really noticed a difference in the trigger pull, I might feel differently, but it doesn't seem to be a problem.Chipperman
Member
The liklihood of me ever needing a tactical reload is very small. But then the liklihood of me ever needing my gun in the first place is pretty small. I choose to carry a second magazine. Will I ever need it, even if I do use my gun? Maybe I should not bother with the second mag.
I also believe that night sights are a good idea. What's the liklihood of me ever needing my gun at night as opposed to daytime? Maybe I should just put regular sights back on.
I think I'll cancel that fire-insurance policy on my house while I'm at it. All this time, and my house has still never burned down.
I would rather not handicap myself. If you feel that tactical reloads are a waste of time, then don't practice them. Disparaging them as "time-filler" for others who do serious training is just plain ignorant.
Devonai
Member
Tactical reloads are performed during a lull in the action, right? Well, when is a full reload performed? Whenever it needs to happen, of course.
While I agree that it is less likely that you will be interrupted during a tactical reload than a full reload, being able to fire the round in the chamber may save your life.
If the only difference in training is what you do with the first magazine, then why not practice pocketing it? If you are interrupted trying to pocket the partially-expended magazine, the worst thing that can happen is that you have to drop it and deal with the threat.
While I agree that it is less likely that you will be interrupted during a tactical reload than a full reload, being able to fire the round in the chamber may save your life.
If the only difference in training is what you do with the first magazine, then why not practice pocketing it? If you are interrupted trying to pocket the partially-expended magazine, the worst thing that can happen is that you have to drop it and deal with the threat.
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