Magazine Observations

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If ya wanna see my Nork collection, you'll hafta take I-95 north to I-85 north to Old US-64. Easy directions from there.

Tuner, I have to say the highlight of my last visit was to stand next to your safe while you brought out your 1911 toys of various flavors. I especially like that your "tools" are not well preserved safe queens, but well used and just as beautiful for it. The ones that were the most interesting to me were the dogs that others couldn't make work or were "junk"!

If I hadn't all ready known the answer, I'd have tried to buy one of those Norincos from ya!!

:)
 
Highlight

Hacker...as it happens...I've just aquired another Norinco since you were here. Lightly used, and doesn't appear to have the bad barrel/lug damage
issues that some have. Tim is lustin' after this one, so he can shoot the soup outta his other one and keep one in good shape. Since he's a pretty good fella...and because I already have 10 of the things...I'll let him take it soon.

Thanks for your service, Major. Fly hard and shoot straight. Lookin' forward to a visit when ya get back stateside.
 
Many after market mags have different specs in my view just as some currently manufactured "1911s do not quite have original specs.

Very true, both dimensionally, and in material specifications. They are also the ones that generate the most complaints about not being reliable, have functioning problems, etc.

I'll bet if we had a set of blueprints for Glocks, Sig's, Rugers, H&K, etc. that have good performance reputations we'd find they were made to print, including magazines.

You know what they say about too many cooks in the kitchen... :uhoh: :scrutiny:
 
Probably early Vietnam-era contract mags supplied by Checkmate Industries.
(Pretty sure that's what the CAGE code resolves to.)Good magazines...unless they're bogus...but the springs may need to be changed.

The same guy offering these had some individual magazines labeled as WWII-era.

BUT, they did not have the tapered lips, they had the short lips. This made me a bit concerned about the reliability of his descriptions. And I never would have picked up on this except for this thread.
 
Tuner,

I had hoped you might make it because it is closer than LV NV. Immunosupressed I do not like crowd but do have fun at the Shot Show. I know where you are as I lived in Durham 7 years and 2 years at Camp Lejeune. It would be fun to see your Norinco collection. I recently bought a Star PD .45 in excellent condition for $185. It is an interesting piece as a pseudo lightweight Commander. It runs fine.

Dean
[email protected]
410-952-7848
 
Durham and Lejeune

Durham? :scrutiny: You have my profound sympathies, Doc.

Lejeune?? And here all this time I was thinkin' you wuz a Hollywood Marine.;)
oorah...

When Kelie gets home from her shift at the ER...if her digital camera is charged up and ready...I'll go fetch'em all and make a picture of the whole kit and kaboodle for ya. If the camera is dead, it'll be tomorrow.

You shoulda stopped by when you were in Charlotte. If ya took 85 north to
Greensboro, you passed within about a mile of me as the crow flies.
 
Tuner, Happy New Year!
Quick Q: I'm looking at buying some mags with....

19200
ASSY 5508694
MFR 30745

....stamped on the bottom. Would you know if these are USGI and from what year?

Thanks for all the good 1911 info!

MR2
 
I have purchased 4 mags off the internet.Cheapo's and I am getting what I expected, they came with the new springs and followers but they are crap also. My Kimber magazine is awesome along with the chip mckormic mags I have.
 
Mags

FPrice...WW2 USGI magazines didn't have CAGE codes on the bottom. They had small letters denoting the manufacturer stamped on the toe of the baseplate on the top, and they wouldn't have had the short, wadcutter-style feed lips anyway.

Mister2...I can't find my CAGE list, so...Anyway...I'm not sure when the feed lip design changed on government contract magazines. Early Vietnam-era mags had tapered lips, and there were some bogus GI magazines floating around the shows. I bought a couple of'em with WC lips....aware that they were fakes...and they seem to work okay after installing Wolff springs, but aren't of quite the same quality as the real things. Not as heavy, nor as bend/ding-resistant. No problems with'em as far as function goes, but they're assigned to range-only duties. They've held up for over a year, but I have 72 magazines for the range, so each one doesn't come under that much use.
 
Tuner,

I hope I haven't confused the issue. There were several separate 1911 magazines for sale where I bought these. What I saw first were some individual magazines (two), both labeled as "WWII-era" 1911 magazines. Both had the WC (?) lips, not the tapered variety that seem to be early goverment style. Neither had any markings on the bottom, although one had some "residue" which seemed to me to be the remains of a magazine bump pad which had been glued on and then removed. I decided that these were probably not WWII and were definitely not worth the asking price ($15 each).
 
re:

Ah! Okay Frosty. You probably did the right thing. Sounds like a boxful 'o' junk. Some of the magazines may have been pretty good, or even completely functional...but once I see evidence of slam pads and such, or the vendor not knowing (or outright lying about) the difference between WW2 USGI mags and later contract or bogus USGI mags...I tend to let'em lay right where they are unless I can get'em for about 5 dollars per dozen.;)
 
Checkmate.....

Tuner,
Call Checkmate.....they have GI spec mags with tapered lips and dimpled followers. You have to ask specifically for those features........I have samples on the way for testing:)
 
1911Tuner,

I don't actually have any of the new Checkmate magazines...yet. However, I did request info from the Checkmate website.

If they turn out to be all that Will hopes they are, any interest in a group buy? I could use some new quality magazines for carry.

Not that I don't like my Chip McCormicks, they just sometimes have problems feeding certain hollowpoints as the first round out.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire
 
Call Checkmate.....they have GI spec mags with tapered lips and dimpled followers. You have to ask specifically for those features........I have samples on the way for testing

Will,

Any report on the magazines?

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire
 
Geez. Hope I'm not drifting off topic here, but I really don't understand why modern manufacturing companys can't reproduce today what was once being massed produced way back during WWII.

Is it that hard to make magazines according to the original specs? Is it way too costly? Why must we scrounge for left over surplus mags if we want to get ones that are true to the original desing? I can't believe that in today's 1911 saturated market there is no company that offers magazines made according to the original.

With that being said, I own only one 1911 and tree mags. It's a 1946 Colt GM, and with it came two mags, one with the letter "S" on the baseplate tab and another mag that has the number "32 062" on the bottom of the baseplate, which is not welded but held in place by two pins. I assume that the first is a WWII Scoville, I don't have a clue as to what the second is (Any experts care to help care to help?). The third mag I bought a couple of years ago and is a Wolff, I think it is made by Metalform(?). All three work great, and my pistol runs flawlessly.

I wonder why Wolff decided to drop their old line of mags, since they work so well. They now offer new ones, which I have never tried.
 
History: Long Read

Blakenzy wrote:

>Geez. Hope I'm not drifting off topic here, but I really don't understand why modern manufacturing companys can't reproduce today what was once being massed produced way back during WWII.
**********

Not off-topic at all. Of course they can make'em. There's just not a market for an obsolete design that'll only work with hardball...:rolleyes:

A little history may be helpful.

Back in the early days, bullseye shooters were given a little help with the
design of the Hensley&Gibbs #68 200-grain SWC bullet. It was accurate and cheap, once the shooter amortized the cost of his bullet molds and related equipment, and it helped with scoring due to the shoulder that cut a clean, round hole in the target instead of tearing through as hardball tends to do.
Sometimes it was hard to tell if the next higher scoring ring was cut when a shot edged right on the line. The SWC was easier to judge. It either cut the line, and gave the shooter the higher point...or it didn't.

The Bullseye competitors also discovered that many pistols wouldn't feed with the SWC unless the magazine was modified to release the round earlier, and the development of the present-day timed-release magazine began.

Along comes IPSC competition, and there was a major power floor, in which the ammunition had to meet certain velocity and energy levels...usually determined by a ballistic pendulum that had to be moved a certain distance in order for the shooter to qualify for the higher point afforded by major power factor...or be bumped into minor power with its reduced scoring for a given hit.

So, the shooters...in order to keep recoil as low as possible...handloaded their ammo to just make major...though sometimes they were so close, that variations put them into minor anyway. With IPSC competition and the tendency of the shooters to fudge on their ammo a bit, also came the desire to have more rounds in the magazine...since one extra round could make or break a stage if the stage could be completed without losing time reloading...or afford a faster reload on a hot chamber if the shooter was adept at counting rounds.

The trouble came with the necessarily shorter and lighter magazine springs that didn't cause much trouble with the reduced power levels of the ammo...but often did with the full-power hardball, and the hotter +p offerings.

Along comes a new bullet with an even shorter nose than the #68...which worked well with the modified magazines, and often even the unaltered hardball mags. The shorter nose placed more weight at full bullet diameter, making the bullet a bit more accurate...and it allowed the weight to be dropped to 185 grains and still provide enough weight at the bullet diameter to maintain accuracy...AND...the lighter bullet brought the recoil impulse down a bit below the 200-grain pill with the ammo still able to make major.

Problem was, that the short, stubby bullet was a real bear to get to feed in the tapered-lip.late release magazines...even the ones that were altered to provide an earlier release.

Enter the parallel-lip/early,abrupt release design. With a little work, the guns would function reliably with the new magazine and the short bullets...and then the world changed with the growing trend toward hollowpoint ammo...and I give credit to the old 200-grain Speer Lawman round...or the blame, whichever it may be...for the complete changeover to the wadcutter magazine.

Affectionately known as the "Flying Ashtray" the speer bullet was a stubby
.45 caliber bullet with a huge hollow cavity in the nose. So short that it gave a lot of trouble in many guns with the GI mags and the hybrid that Colt developed, with its tapered lips coupled with a timed release that was a little earlier and more abrupt than the GIs...but later and less abrupt than the wadcutter design. The Flyin' Ashtray still didn't do too well...so somebody tried straightening the feed lips and timing it to release earlier and very abruptly...and it worked in most pistols, though certainly not all. The Speer ammo became the standard, and the catch-phrase "If it'll feed the Flyin' Ashtray, it'll feed anything"...and that was pretty much true.

Only problem was, that the new magazine design gave trouble in some pistols when ammo OTHER than the short wadcutter bullet or the Speer lawman round was used. Mainly because of cartridge overall length, but sometimes bullet shape was also a player. In such pistols, a return to the "hybrid" or even the old GI "Hardball" magazines was usually the cure...and that still stands.

Depending on the gun's particular specs...and this doesn't include all guns and all magazines...the wadcutter magazines fall short unless the guns are precisely tweaked to work with those magazines. Sometimes the amateur gets lucky and makes the right moves...and sometimes he makes the problem worse. Most often, it's the latter, judging by the high number of pistols that I used to get that had been "Ramped and Throated" by various means...most often the ubiquitous and dreaded Dremel.

In a high percentage of the guns that I see nowadays that have feed issues...especially on the top couple of rounds...simply using a tapered/late-release magazine completely cures the problem, or at least makes it somuch better than the rest of it is taken care of with minor tuning without invasive surgery or the now-standard practice of mirror polishing the feed ramp.

Pistols that have what is considered by many to be insufficiently deep feed ramps...I think the accepted minimum is about .400 or so from the top of the rail...function perfectly with ramps as shallow as .300 inch or even less, provided that the ramp angle is correct. I have a 1919 USGI Colt that is unaltered and completely stock in every way. Its feed ramp is a mere .290 deep, yet it will feed and function perfectly with hollowpoints and even the 200-grain H&G #68, and it;ll do it from the original GI magazines. It feeds so smoothly that it almost sounds and feels like it's goint to battery on an empty chamber. The same holds true for ALL of my USGI pistols...WW1 and WW2 era...as well as a stock 1225 Commercial Colt. None of the feed ramps are more than .320 inch deep, and none have anything even approaching a mirror finish.

I also have two Colt Commander pistols...one is a steel-framed version built in the ealry 70s, and the other is a mid-90s production LW Commander. Both feed roughly with the wadcutter magazines...even using hardball. Both feed smoothly with "GI Hardball" or Colt "hybrid" magazines...no matter what type of ammunition is used. Ramp polishing isn't an option. One is alloy and the other is Satin Nickel. Ramp inserts are labor intensive, and expensive...since I don't have easy access to a mill these days...so the clear choice was simply to use the "obsolete" magazines, rather than to insist on using a design that was trendy or because I just had to have 8 rounds in the mag.

I have dozens of the wadcutter magazines, and they work perfectly in my beaters and in most of my carry guns. In some of the others...they don't. So, I keep another few dozen of the magazines on hand that they do work with. FWIW, I carry the GIs or the hybrids in ALL of my carry guns, even though they do okay with the wadcutter mags, even though they work.
Stickler for reliability that I am, I want to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible.
 
Although I shoot the 200 SWC and find the wadcutter mags to be very good in my pistolas anyway, I'd bet there would be a good market for the GI mag.

The 230 is very popular even in competition now, and the "influx" of cheaper, so to speak, factory ball ammo over the last ten years probably has lessened the SWC sales for non-bullseye shooters. That's a "guess", not fact.

But, I'd try a GI mag if they had them for sale. I don't do "frankenmags" so they need the right spring, don't fall apart, proper specs, right follower, etc. All those "little things" consumers want when they buy things. :rolleyes:
 
Previous poster Will Fennel mentioned mags with tapered feed lips enroute for testing.

What were the results?

Tuner, have you any information of these 'repro' mags from Checkmate?

Thanks,

salty.
 
Check-Mate

Salty...The four that I have are all excellent, and feed hollowpoints as smoothly as ball in my USGI pistols as well as all the others. They're made to Colt's specs, and appear to have springs equal to Wolff's 11-pound "Extra Power" numbers. Zero failures to function.

Check-Mate is gearing up for a run, and reports are that they'll be ready by mid-April. They will also manufacture to standard USGI specs if the demand is sufficient. Prices have got Metalform beat by about 2 dollars across the board, with a better follower design to boot...but they require a 50-count order to do the mega-discount.

Stay tuned. These are some really good magazines.
 
Magazines

Funny how fast this tapered-lip, late/gradual release magazine demo caught on. All it took was for a few guys to actually see and feel the difference in smoothness and...in a few instances...have a balky pistol go from "Iffy" to "Never Miss" with no more than a magazine change...without resorting to trick, often expensive mags. They bear witness to the fact that Colt may just know a few little things about their pistol. All I know is that some of the facial expressions have been priceless. They've walked in skeptical...and left amazed that such a little thing could make such a huge difference.

Just warms my ol' heart.:cool:
 
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