Magazine safeties...

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katastrof0

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Why do these safeties exist? I seriously cant find one single reason for their existence.. Why?!

Is it a US thing? I for one cant understand what they are supposed to prevent. Please tell me:confused:

BB John
 
Are you talking about a magazine disconnect, where the firearm will not fire without a magazine inserted?

If that's what you are asking, then it is to prevent the 4 rule unbelievers from shooting themselves or others. How many stories have been posted on THR where someone had an ND when they drop the mag and forget to jack the slide and eject the round in the chamber?
 


That was only part of it, lacoochee. The other, more important part was to prevent an officer from being shot with his own pistol during a struggle for control. Thought was the officer could punch the mag release and drop the mag and not have to sweat the round in the chamber.
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Because it's almost always an unloaded gun that shoots someone on accident.

I agree that it's a mostly worthless "safety." The officer scenario is the only one where I can see any real benefit. But the downside is that many new officers that aren't already gunnies, whose agencies issue guns with mag disconnect safeties, don't realize that all handguns don't work the same way. So it actually breeds a nonchalance that could be dangerous or deadly in some cases. Not a good trade off in my mind. But the California politicians who don't know any better feel that it will save everyone anyway.
 
Why do these safeties exist? I seriously cant find one single reason for their existence.. Why?!

Is it a US thing? I for one cant understand what they are supposed to prevent. Please tell me
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You need to work on your imagination. People make mistakes and rack the slide then drop the mag. They pull the trigger with the mag out forgetting to clear the chamber. Officers drop the mag during a gun grab to disable the gun. Its not too hard to dig up examples of where they did actually save lives or where they would have saved a life.

Do you need one? Thats up to you, but I don't believe they are worthless.

So it actually breeds a nonchalance that could be dangerous or deadly in some cases.
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I'm not sure I buy that, I think its a fail safe for when the 4 rules are broken. A 1911 may have a manual safety but that doesn't mean you'd point it at your chest and pull the trigger. I don't see why people would rely on a mag disconnect in such a fashion.
 
Soybomb -

Let me elaborate. I had a friend who had a CCW, and was pulled over by a state trooper. The troopers of that state are issued S&W (some model I don't know about, not being a Smith guy) that have a mag disconnect. My friend informed the trooper that he's carrying legally (required by his state). The trooper asks my friend to step out of the car, and to place his hands on the roof so that the trooper can unload his weapon. My friend complies.

The trooper proceeds to remove the magazine from the Glock my friend carries, and tells my friend he can stand at ease or whatever. My friend is alarmed, and reminds the trooper that there's still a round in the chamber. The trooper tells him that it's okay, because the gun couldn't fire.

That's what I mean by nonchalance - not that someone would point the gun at themselves and then pull the trigger. Either way, I think you'd agree that it's not very informed thinking.
 
Back in the day (between the two world wars) the German police were having their issue revolvers replaced with Lugers. Not being particularly up on such things, some kept thinking that if you pull the mag, it's unloaded. Several perforated policemen later...
 
Are LEOs trained to drop the mag in a gun struggle? Seems like that's the one place it would be useful, of course, if you retain/regain control of it you've got a paperweight.
 
They are useful as a duty weapon... I'm not sure where, when or why they were 1st started, but lots of people are alive from them today.

I personally don't care one way or another.
 
Seems like that's the one place it would be useful, of course, if you retain/regain control of it you've got a paperweight.
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Spare mags. Regain control of the weapon, reload with spare mag, shoot the bastard.
There are people alive because of it. There are probably people dead because of it. It's not a fool-proof bypass for the four rules, but we've seen stuff happen negligently and accidently when even one of the four rules is forgotten, so it's nice to have one last thing prevent the unthinkable.
I don't so much mind the one on my M&P. It's not in the way, and I don't have to think about it. It's not "another thing to go wrong". And I know how to remove it if I so desire. It's nice that it's an option rather than a requirement.
 
Its just down to pure stupid then i guess..

Doesnt it really pi** you off that guns get ruined just so people who shouldnt have guns in the first place cant shoot themselves? (Ruger MKIII in this case)

Take the mag out, rack the slide. Thats basic here in our safety course in Norway.

BB John
 
And here I thought it was so that if a BG attacks while you're reloading during a brief lull the one you still have the chamber is useless and you have to use the weapon as a club.;)
 
It is ruined because its full of safetys that really isnt necessary if people just got the right education in the first place.

BB John
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so making something "safer" ruins it?

I guess I should go pull my air bags and cut my seat belts then.

Would you buy a car with options you didn't want?
 
no it would be the car would not start if the seat belt was not on...

how many people would support that?
 
I think the major problem with mag safeties is that far too many people are under the impression that pulling the mag out safes the weapon, and then they encounter weapons that aren't equipped with the mag safety. Obviously they should have been trained to consider all weapons loaded all the time until they personally clear it while still handling it like a loaded weapon. When people are led to believe a device or a design will keep them out of trouble, bad stuff happens.
 
so making something "safer" ruins it?

I guess I should go pull my air bags and cut my seat belts then.

Would you buy a car with options you didn't want?
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It has worked since 1949, so i guess it works today.. So you really mean that these safeties are necessary and its a improvement of that design?

If i could find a MKII NEW in a store in Norway without all those safety`s, then yes! Ill even pay more for it than a new MKIII:)

Its not safe.. Guns are never safe aslong as the guy behind the trigger isnt thaught right.

BB John
 
A magazine disconnect is beneficial to law enforcement officers who escort prisoners in jails and courtroom holding cells. Instead of having to unholster their pistol and put it in a locker before entering, they can just remove the magazine.
 
Its not safe.. Guns are never safe aslong as the guy behind the trigger isnt thaught right.
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how do you teach some one the right way?

Do you mandate some type of training?
Time and time again that has shown to NOT work.

If they bother you, don't buy a gun with them. If you want to gribe about it to some one, I recomend the company that made them.

I would still like to know how they ruin the gun.
 
Like a loaded chamber indicator, or intregal key lock, to me, they are a horrible excuse for poor weapons handling to become a sloppy and dangerous bad habit.

WORSE STILL--pols LOVE to mandate such onerous things and cry what a wonderful idea it is.

By their nature, these 'safety' mechanisms reduce the absolute reliability of the weapon in at least some minimal way. And in the case of mag safeties--negate the possibility (however remote) that someone's survival might depend on being able to shoot the weapon single-shot, sans mag.

The only 'good' thing is that most of these add-on features are so designed as to be removed if desired by the end user--thus returning the weapon to desired configuration.

I'm not agaisnt safety devices altogether--I don't defeat the dead-man switch on the lawnmower for example--but I never plan on using my lawnmower as a weapon.
 
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