Magnum Research BFR .45-70 loads - which ones?

[Gewehr98]

Ok, looks like my travel voucher from my last deployment will boost my BFR purchasing power. I already load .45-70 for a Rolling Block, Siamese Mauser, and Ruger #1S. Something I haven't seen or read is what .45-70 power level is the BFR rated to handle.

For rifles, these are the categories:
1. Trapdoor Springfield loads
2. Winchester and Marlin levergun loads
3. Siamese Mauser and Ruger #1 loads

Granted, Category 3 loads in a BFR are definitely snappy in a 10" revolver. Since most factory .45-70 loads are Category 1, does that mean the BFR was designed and built for just that? I haven't seen anything on the Magnum Research website that spells it out, either.

 

[Preacherman]

For one example, see the Garrett product page here. Only one load is recommended for BFR revolvers:

420-GR SUPERHARDCAST GAS-CHECKED HAMMERHEAD AT 1650-FPS

THIS AMMO IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN TC CONTENDER, KODIAK MK IV, BFR REVOLVERS, C. SHARPS, NEF, SHILOH SHARPS, MARLIN, WINCHESTER, BROWNING, AND RUGER FIREARMS.

ENERGY: 2540 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 45; MEPLAT: .330"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 27,000-PSI; SAAMI COMPLIANT; TRAJECTORY: +3.5" @ 100-YDS, ZERO @ 150-YDS, -8.3" @ 200-YDS

This load is WAY above your Category 1, and almost at the top end of Category 2, I'd guess. Garrett's other .45-70 loads are not listed as recommended for any handgun. I guess if you load to similar energy, pressure and velocity figures as those given above, it should work fine in a BFR.

 

[PCRCCW]

Ive shot a BFR Maxine with reloads but dont know the specs on them.
I can tell you they were plenty high pressure and the last 5 I shot were 425 gr. Cast bullets.

Its one tough gun....and a shooter also.

Shoot well.

 

[Nise]

BFR

Reading on their site they say #2 loads, for lever guns but not higher level for Ruger #1's and the like.

I have been looking for a large Magnum and think I have settled on the BFR. From experience can anyone relate the recoil to me? I shoot 41 mag full power and had a 44 mag that I loaded up, ruger blackhawk w/ square guard liked to bite me though, lol. I was curious about torqueing, twisting in ur hands or the like? Thanks

 

[Bigger is Better]

Good evening guys. 'Cause I hope in little time I'll own one of 45-70 (or 450, Idon't know yet) BFR revolvers, it's useful for me to know some interesting load (interesting but especially powerful, quite powerful), considering velocity and energy out of a 10.5" barrel. What you suggest? Can you help me? I know you do!
Thanks

 

[Water-Man]

Garrett makes great ammo. Been using it for years but be prepared for some recoil.

 

[critter]

Nise, on the recoil of a BFR in 45-70: Note that recoil is subjective and may 'feel' different to different folks, but here is my two cents-YMMV!

I find the recoil to be quite large, but very 'handleable'. To me, it seems to be a big, somewhat slow 'push' rather than a quick, snappy slap. The gun WILL COME UP, will twist and it will 'roll' in the hand if not held really tightly. I find it best to hold it tightly in the hands but NOT lock the elbow so that you get the 'shock absorber' effect.

A CONSISTANT hold is important or you will get mega-verticle stringing. My experience is with a long barrel gun and level #2 loads using heavy bullets. Much practice can be comfortably had using lighter loads and lighter bullets.

It takes some practice and experience to handle one of these things reliably in the game field, but I feel it is well worth the effort.

Hope this makes sense and helps a little. Nothing is like first hand experience for YOU though.

Also they are a 'blast' and a hoot to shoot. Have fun!

 

[plinky]

You might find this Youtube video interesting:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RRU964huRQ



Contents: Mike and his lady shooting BFRs in .45/70 and .450 Marlin as well as .460 S&W XVR. Illustrates differences in recoil pretty well. I kept expecting Mike to ask "Are you talkin' to me?"

The .45/70 is apparently shooting mild factory ammo, while the .450 is hotter...about like a Level 2 handload for a .45/70. I don't know if you can safely load a BFR any hotter than that, but that is pretty stout.

If you want raw power (and recoil), you might consider an Encore as well.

 

[Bigger is Better]

Wow boys! Probably behind the terrorist shape form there was a tank!

 

[Bigger is Better]

I think that if my well-known friend for years shoot 450 M reloads at more of 3100 ft-lbs (and consequently, I think, with very high pressure), his (and I presume all) BFR can safely shoot loads like that we've seen in Youtube video. Moreover the gap 'cilynder-barrel' of his handcannon is still, after years, less of 0.004"!
In your opinion it can possible reload .45-70 at the same energy level of .450 M? Someone of you, one time, has already answer me, but I don't know data (powder charge, powder tipe, bullet weigth, pressure, etc.) to push .45-70 bullet at more of 3000 fpe. Some suggestion men?

 

[Redhawk1]

#2 loads, for lever guns but not higher level for Ruger #1's

I stay in the Marlin loads and they work just fine in my BFR.

 

[plinky]

Bigger, a handloader should be able to get the same results from a .45/70 as he could from a .450. That said, your friends .450 load is quite a bit above factory ammo performance or a level 2 .45/70 load.

MR does not condone it (not that they condone any handloads) so he really is out there on his own. It's good to hear that his gun is holding up.

The BFRs really are interesting and I'll probably get one some day. Still figuring out the caliber though.

 

[Redhawk1]

plinky, do like I did, get a 45-70 and a 500 mag. I love them both.

 

[Bigger is Better]

My friend has called me yesterday and has said to me that one of "hottest" charges he shoot in his BFR is a .45-70 load (he has also second cilynder) with 300 grs hollow point bullet, 59 grs of IMR H4198 powder and about 42.000 cup pressure: this load gives him 3005 fpe of muzzle energy!
I hope this date may to be useful for you. Bye guys

 

[plinky]

I have a dream...

Redhawk1, those are probably my top two choices but I'd probably go with the .500 right now. When I learned that the BFR .500 had the long cylinder I was a little put off. Now that I think about it though, there is a ton of potential there. MR could lengthen the .500 case by about 1/2", creating a monster cartridge which would be hard to top. No other gun maker is positioned to do this without a lot of expense. Given a supply of brass cases, MR would need only a new reamer to complete the hardware package.

Of course some people think the .500 S&W is several steps too far and they would not appreciate this further developement. That's OK. As I understand it, the .500 is selling pretty well, especially for something that is admittedly extreme. I think a new and pretty much final "most powerful" would do just as well.

Why should MR take the plunge? Because it would effectively end the revolver power race with them on top. Someone could make a longer cylindered revolver but it seems unlikely. Someone could make a larger than .50 cal wheelgun (with a sporting use exemption) but for whatever reason, it has not been done yet. Maybe that is tougher than it seems.

Sorry to ramble about this but that empty 1/2" in the BFR cylinder begs to be filled.

Bigger, that is a really a stout load! It is well above Sierra's max for Marlin and Ruger rifles. I think it deserves an "overload warning". If the pressure numbers are accurate though, it would seem safe. And the performance is very impressive!

 

[Stainz]

An 8.4" S&W .500 Magnum with typical .500 fare is much more 'push' than a 7.5" .45-70 BFR with 405gr Govt loads - or the other homebrews I've shot throughthe range owner's BFR. MR insists that the recoil energy is less than a .44 Magnum. To me, .44 Magnums, like from my 6" 629, are more brisk and 'punishing' than the BFR was - and even my 7.5" .454 SRH. The MR .50 AE DEII is the worst to me - but not from straight recoil - from the sudden twist (I have CTS problems.). Of course, a 12 oz J-frame with hot .357M CorBons is miserable, too - nothing to hold on to!

No, with normal loads - not the Ruger #1 level - the 7.5" BFR in .45-70 will wear your forearms out from trying to hold it up and on target - but not from the recoil!

Odd about age, my .454 SRH and #1H in .458 Lott, not to mention my NEF HR's in .45-70, are a fleeting memory - I have a .45 Colt M1892 and a few .22LR CZs for long guns. The last three revolvers I bought were .38/.357Ms. I guess I'm wimping out!

Stainz

 

[Bigger is Better]

If the pressure numbers are accurate though, it would seem safe

Quite accurate plinky, you can believe me. And besides, excuse me partner, BFR revolvers chamber also .460 S&W Magnum, correct or not? And .460 S&W works with pressures quite higher than .450 or .45-70 (if I'm not mistaken .460 medium pressure is around 60.000 cup!). So, if it's able to tolerate 60.000 or more without problems, why not only 42, 45 or 50.000 cup?

 

[plinky]

Hey, I didn't mean to cast doubts on anything you said. I'm willing to believe the pressure numbers. My reference to an "overload warning" was only standard procedure for any load data posted which exceeds published data. The load you posted qualifies by a wide margin. I think there is a "Sticky" on the board about this. No offense intended. Just caution.

I also didn't mean to imply that the gun would not handle this load. The BFR is chambered for high pressure cartridges. Based on the same logic, I have loaded an Encore to similar levels. In doing so I, like your friend, was totally on my own. No warranty, insurance or safety net other than what we build into our procedures. So if I were to post that data, I would give lots of warning along with it. That's all I meant.

 

[Bigger is Better]

Hey, I've never thought you want offend me! I know you want only warn who reloads, 'cause reloading operations require always all caution and attention you can put in. And you're right rimembering it. Cool!

 

[Redhawk1]

Bigger is Better, how does your buddy measure the amount of pressure he gets? From my understanding the device that measures pressure is very expensive.

I am just wondering, how he came up with the cup or he just guessing?

 

[Bigger is Better]

I believe he has never own devices to measure pressure, or if he get one I don't know. But I'm sure he takes pressure data from his reloading book, which indications he follows scrupulously... oh, actually, sometimes it happens that he "experiments" something "new", but nothing that exceeds the cartridge limits. However I don't think he makes his experiments with BFR, he values too much that gun to risk destroying it! :banghead: