Making a pistol as reliable as it can be

[Hunter2011]

Let me start by saying that all brands do give failures to feed etc. It is not limited to the brand Taurus that I own.
I am experiencing nose dive issues with it. Not while shooting, but while loading the first round into the chamber by racking the slide.
I've done a fair bit of reading and it seems the 2 most common causes are that the feeding ramp is not polished, and magazine issues.
What else can cause my ammo to stuck at the bottom of the feeding ramp because of ammo that nose dives?
How can I fix this myself?
Thanks guys.

 

[SleazyRider]

Sounds to me like magazine issues. In the past I've had to gently tweak (bend) the magazine feed lips for reliable feed of a specific ammo, as well as adjust the magazine spring tension.

 

[ritepath]

I had a pt145 (gen3) that had the same issue. I tried several different magazines but it always had the same problem. My solution was sell it for 220 bucks on the sidewalk outside a gun show, add a few hundred to that and buy and SR45. I'm no longer mad at the range. Of course I now need a new carry sized 45 but I'll eventually find one. Lesson learned on low dollar compact 45's.

All the horror stories about Taurus CS kept me from sending it back...

 

[mgmorden]

When you are loading the first round and rack the slide, are you easing it back down or just letting it go so that it slams shut.

If you're easing it down, that's your problem.

 

[Byrd666]

I'd tend to agree with the magazine issue theory. You might try a full disassemble and cleaning, and possible bend/tweaking of the feed lips. Or hopefully, you can borrow, or buy a new mag. and see if that one works better.

 

[tarosean]

I've done a fair bit of reading and it seems the 2 most common causes are that the feeding ramp is not polished, and magazine issues.

I've polished exactly zero feed ramps and been shooting over 35 yrs.
Being specific about the model of gun may help too. Does it have and integral barrel ramp? Does the nose even reach the ramp?

 

[Hunter2011]

When you are loading the first round and rack the slide, are you easing it back down or just letting it go so that it slams shut.

If you're easing it down, that's your problem.

I try to let the slide go forward on its own power. It also fails to load when I press the slide release button on rack back slide.

It is a PT709 tarosean.

When looking at the ammo in the magazine, it feels to me as if they are not pointing upwards enough. There are lots of play in the ammo. I can move the bullet part up and done in a loaded magazine. Follower problem perhaps?

 

[Vol46]

It sounds like a magazine issue. My 709 has never had the problem that you describe, but I had very good experience with Taurus Customer Service on a failure to extract problem.

Mags are difficult to find for the 709, but the first thing I would try is a different magazine. I would recommend a call to Taurus CS - see what they would be willing to do to help you with your issue.

They may have a used mag that they would be willing to send for you to try ( they did that for me as a first attempt at fixing my extraction problem), they can put you on a waiting list for a new mag, or they could have you send your gun in for evaluation/ repair service. It would be worth having a conversation with them.

 

[PointOneSeven]

You might try loading one or two rounds less than maximum and see if you have better results.

I've noticed most semi's are happier when the magazines aren't packed full.

It's a minority view, but I'm not the only one on here that practices this.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Nose diving when hand chambering

This sounds more like a magazine issue, or you're not letting the slide snap home at full speed. If the feed ramp were rough and needed any polishing, that is a defect in the pistol that should have shown up before now.

 

[shooter1]

When fired, does it cycle and feed normally? If it does, try this:
Grasp the rear of the slide with the non shooting hand, pull the slide to the rear as hard and fast as you can. At the same time push the gun forward as hard as you can with the shooting hand ripping the slide out of your grasp. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it didn't feed that first round. You didn't say, but I bet you own more than one magazine, and have already tried all of them with the same result. Some pistols need maximum slide speed to feed properly.
Good Luck!
str1
Waiting list for a magazine? Wow!

 

[Hullraiser]

If it's new, just could be a little stiff and needing shot and leave mag fully loaded when stored. I like to polish feed ramps to mirror finish, but not removing material, just polish. A dremel and fine rouge works great. I've never had any problems with a pt745, but had a similar issue with a tcp738. Polished ramp, broke mag springs in and changed hollow point brand to a more tapered angle and now works fine. As your, it shot fine, it was just that first round chambering.
Ps.. Don't start bending lips on mag.

 

[Hunter2011]

Hi Shooter1.
It does fire and feed normally while it is shooting. This can then maybe be me who rack the slide incorrectly? Because it it was the guns fault, it would have failed during firing as well.

One say don't mess with the magazine lips, others say do it, what to do?

 

[shooter1]

I'd never suggest you start randomly bending your magazine feed lips in the hope of improving anything. Great way to destroy a magazine.
Learn to rack that slide like I suggested. Start with the slide closed, insert the loaded magazine, rack the slide as violently as you can using the push pull technique. It may not chamber every time at first, but in time it will. Just watch for bullet setback to make sure you don't set a bullet back in the case to a point where you have excessive pressure. Good Luck!
str1

 

[SleazyRider]

Bending the feed lips isn't exactly random. If the round is being presented low, the slide may be contacting it only on its extreme high side of its rim when it peels it from the magazine. Take a dial caliper and accurately measure the distance between the lips and record this distance. While you're at it, check the geometry of the lips to insure that they are square with the slide. If you bend each lip roughly .010", it will open the magazine up .020, but raise the presentation of the round a much greater distance. You can always return the lips to their original configuration if there's no improvement.

Just for fun, try a light spray of silicone lube or even a dab of wax on some rounds. If it corrects the feeding issue, you may have to indeed polish the ramp; but if not, I wouldn't waste any time there. I've never had to polish one myself.

If'n it works with half a full magazine, I'd have a close look at spring tension. Also check that the follower is not binding when the spring is fully compressed.

Try a piece of masking tape on the front, then rear, of the magazine. If it corrects the problem, there may be an issue with how the mag is sitting in the well, quite possible because of the magazine catch. Maybe.

 

[jmr40]

Buy decent ammo and avoid cheap, non factory magazines. The rest is up to the gun manufacturer. Either they build a reliable gun or they don't.

 

[mgmorden]

Easiest way to tell if it's the magazine is to buy another mag. You want a few for any gun you use anyways, so get another one. If it does it with both, it's likely not the magazines.

One possibility - disassemble the magazine and check the spring. I'm not sure of your specific model, but most mags will have the top at an angle compared to the tube when it contacts the follower. The higher part of the spring should be facing the front of the magazine. If the spring is backwards it will often cause nosediving ammo. Not sure if your gun was bought new or used but if used it's quite possible that someone was cleaning the mags and put them back together wrong.

 

[shooter1]

I think it's logical to assume the OP has zero experience with magazine tuning. It follows that any tweaks done to the magazine are likely to be random and counter productive. As stated by the OP, the mag feeds properly during the firing cycle. So at this point, slide velocity is the only variable in the feed cycle. The need for speed to chamber is likely due to a little roughness between mating parts. Likely a rough breech face or extractor problem. (Tension/Damage/Dirty) I've found this chambering problem to occur most frequently with those manufactured in S America and the Philippines. I've dealt with more than a few. In my experience the problem will improve or completely resolve it's self with use, once we get past the initial chambering issue. If the OP uses the method suggested I believe he can get there.
Str1

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

The gun functioning normally when actually shooting tells me there is most likely nothing wrong with it. You cannot possibly exert the same forces on the slide with just your hands as firing a cartridge does.

When you shoot the gun dry, the slide locks back and you reload with a fresh magazine, are there any issues then? There are two schools of thought as to how to release the slide on a fresh magazine. One is to push the slide stop down and let the slide run forward on its own, the other is to grasp the slide, pull it to the rear and let it snap forward. This is not to argue the merits of either method, but to point out that there had better not be any feeding issues at this time.

 

[Steve C]

I have corrected this kind of issue with some 1911 magazines that where improperly assembled on manufacture by putting the forward end of the spring to the back side of the magazine and follower. Below is a picture of a properly installed spring with the "up" leading end at the front of the shell follower which keeps the bullets in the up position when fed.

Disassemble your magazine and see if the spring is oriented properly as this could be your problem.

 

[Hunter2011]

When you shoot the gun dry, the slide locks back and you reload with a fresh magazine, are there any issues then? There are two schools of thought as to how to release the slide on a fresh magazine. One is to push the slide stop down and let the slide run forward on its own, the other is to grasp the slide, pull it to the rear and let it snap forward. This is not to argue the merits of either method, but to point out that there had better not be any feeding issues at this time.

Yes. It misfeeds, whether I press the slide release button, or rack the slide myself.

 

[shooter1]

Hunter, have you tried the technique I suggested?
str1

 

[Hunter2011]

Hi Shooter. I will certainly try it this weekend, just to see if it is not maybe my technique that might be the problem, and not the gun. Why else would the gun shoot okay, but just FTF when I load it manually? It must be a mistake I make then?

 

[shooter1]

If it doesn't work the first time or two, don't give up! Remember to rapidly push away with the gun hand and pull back the slide as hard and fast as you can. Grip the slide as tightly as you can, and literally rip it from your grasp. Do it like you're mad at it!!!!
That sucker WILL work if you do it correctly.
Good Luck!
str1

 

[Teachu2]

If it doesn't work the first time or two, don't give up! Remember to rapidly push away with the gun hand and pull back the slide as hard and fast as you can. Grip the slide as tightly as you can, and literally rip it from your grasp. Do it like you're mad at it!!!!
That sucker WILL work if you do it correctly.
Good Luck!
str1

If I had a gun that REQUIRED handling in such a manner, I would consider it defective. So would any gunsmith I've ever worked with.

Steve C made a great point in his post. I have seen many magazines nose-dive ammo, and the spring being reversed was often the culprit. If a gun won't feed FMJ ammo by dropping the slide release, something is wrong with the magazine, the ammo oal, or the gun.