jk2008
Member
Fred,
If you'd be so kind... I'd appreciate it if you listed the detailed steps.
Thanks,
John
Making your own jacketed bullets
- Thread starter joed
- Start date
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If you'd be so kind... I'd appreciate it if you listed the detailed steps.
Thanks,
John
I'd like as much information as I can get on making your own jacketed bullets. I do have one question about using brass for bullets. Bullets are copper and not brass and isn't brass a harder metal? Is there a downside to a brass bullet?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
No.
You probably want to anneal the cases before swaging bullets out of them anyway.
That makes it very soft.
You might also note that the Remington Golden Saber bullet has a cartridge brass alloy jacket, or something very similiar to that alloy.
Cartridge brass alloy is 70% copper, 30% zinc.
Gliding metal, as used in most bullet jackets is 95% copper, 5% zinc.
rc
You probably want to anneal the cases before swaging bullets out of them anyway.
That makes it very soft.
You might also note that the Remington Golden Saber bullet has a cartridge brass alloy jacket, or something very similiar to that alloy.
Cartridge brass alloy is 70% copper, 30% zinc.
Gliding metal, as used in most bullet jackets is 95% copper, 5% zinc.
rc
ReloaderFred
Member
jk2008,
These steps are for the CH-4D two die sets, which are used on a reloading press.
Here are the steps for using commercial half jackets:
1. Determine the bullet weight & design. (RN, RNHP, SWC, SWCHP, WC)
2. Either cut cores from lead wire or cast cores of soft lead. (Jacket + Core = finished weight.
3. Seat the cores in the jackets.
4. Swage to final shape.
5. Add cannelure, if desired.
These are the steps for swaging bullets from cartridge brass:
1. Determine the bullet weight and design.
2. Either cut cores from lead wire or cast cores from soft lead. (I use cast bullets for cores, but cast them from pure lead)
3. Fully anneal the entire cartridge case, making it dead soft. (I do this in a ceramics kiln)
4. Clean the annealed brass in a citric acid bath to remove black residue.
5. Lube the cases.
6. Seat the cores in the annealed brass. (in some bullets, I place the cores inside the brass cases prior to annealing. The lead will melt into the interior of the case, but still need to be seated after the annealing process to ensure good bullets)
7. Run through the notching die. (this is optional, but gives the same finished look as the Hornady XTP, and assists expansion)
8. Swage to final shape.
9. Tumble to clean and remove lube, and make look new.
10. Add cannelure, if desired. (I do this to all bullets intended for revolver loads, but isn't necessary for pistol loads)
Each of these steps takes quite a bit of time, and you're handling each individual bullet several times during the process.
When I anneal the cases, I run the kiln up to 1150 degrees F, and then turn it off and let the batch set overnight in the closed kiln. It will cool slowly, which doesn't really affect the hardness, or lack thereof, of the brass, but apparently lets the lead core bond to the case. In the morning, the temperature will still be over 250 degrees F inside the kiln when I take the batch out to finish cooling. When making .44 Magnum bullets, I can do a batch of 800+ bullets at a time in the kiln.
When properly annealed, you can crush a case with your fingers, and it doesn't matter whether the annealed brass is water quenched or air cooled, as it comes out the same either way. When I was annealing with a torch, I was dropping the annealed cases into water, just because it was safer than having hot brass laying in a pan I might end up inadvertantly touching. If using a torch, the entire case, including the base, must be heated to glowing red to anneal for use in bullets. Those cases must NEVER be used for loaded rounds again, except as bullets. This is very important, as there is no strength left in the case at all when fully annealed. If the case head isn't fully annealed, it won't swage out to the desired diameter. You're moving brass, which must be dead soft for this to work.
The citric acid bath is simply a mixture of hot water and about two teaspoons of pure citric acid per quart of water. The annealed brass is bathed in the solution for about half an hour or so, then rinsed in cool water. This can be done in a stainless steel container, glass or even plastic.
I bought 10 pounds of 100% pure citric acid from a food supply company on line, but you can also use Lemi-Shine, which is found in the housewares section of most large stores, and is used to clean dishwashers, coffee pots, etc. It requires a little more Lemi-Shine per quart, since it has a couple of other ingredients in it, and isn't 100% citric acid. Citric acid tastes like lemons, by the way, and you can make lemon juice from it, but not after you use it to clean your brass.......
The notching die I use was purchased from Brian Thurner, aka BTSniper, on the castboolits.com forum. It's not a necessary step, but it sure makes a better looking bullet. It also cost about as much as a complete set of dies from CH-4D, but in my opinion it was worth it for the finished results.
I use a CH-4D Cannelure tool for applying the cannelures to my bullets. This is a slow process and your hands will get weary if you have a lot of bullets to do. It does make a professional looking bullet, and for some unknown (to me) reason, makes the bullets more accurate on paper. Perhaps it provides for a better crimp, which makes for a better powder burn. I'm not sure, but I've obtained better groups with the bullets when cannelured.
Handgun bullet swaging can be done on an RCBS Rockchucker, as long as you don't over do it. The Rockchucker delivers a lot of pressure, but it's possible to break the linkage arms and smash the top of the ram, if not careful. I haven't damaged my Rockchucker, but I only use it for seating cores and notching cases. For the heavy lifting, I have a huge Hollywood Senior press which was designed for bullet swaging, along with reloading. The Rockchucker was also originally designed for swaging, but the cast linkage arms aren't the same as the original presses. The upside is, if you break a Rockchucker, RCBS will either replace, or repair, it free of charge.
This is just a brief overview of the process, but will give you an idea of what's involved.
Hope this helps.
Fred
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/BulletSwaging003-1.jpg
These steps are for the CH-4D two die sets, which are used on a reloading press.
Here are the steps for using commercial half jackets:
1. Determine the bullet weight & design. (RN, RNHP, SWC, SWCHP, WC)
2. Either cut cores from lead wire or cast cores of soft lead. (Jacket + Core = finished weight.
3. Seat the cores in the jackets.
4. Swage to final shape.
5. Add cannelure, if desired.
These are the steps for swaging bullets from cartridge brass:
1. Determine the bullet weight and design.
2. Either cut cores from lead wire or cast cores from soft lead. (I use cast bullets for cores, but cast them from pure lead)
3. Fully anneal the entire cartridge case, making it dead soft. (I do this in a ceramics kiln)
4. Clean the annealed brass in a citric acid bath to remove black residue.
5. Lube the cases.
6. Seat the cores in the annealed brass. (in some bullets, I place the cores inside the brass cases prior to annealing. The lead will melt into the interior of the case, but still need to be seated after the annealing process to ensure good bullets)
7. Run through the notching die. (this is optional, but gives the same finished look as the Hornady XTP, and assists expansion)
8. Swage to final shape.
9. Tumble to clean and remove lube, and make look new.
10. Add cannelure, if desired. (I do this to all bullets intended for revolver loads, but isn't necessary for pistol loads)
Each of these steps takes quite a bit of time, and you're handling each individual bullet several times during the process.
When I anneal the cases, I run the kiln up to 1150 degrees F, and then turn it off and let the batch set overnight in the closed kiln. It will cool slowly, which doesn't really affect the hardness, or lack thereof, of the brass, but apparently lets the lead core bond to the case. In the morning, the temperature will still be over 250 degrees F inside the kiln when I take the batch out to finish cooling. When making .44 Magnum bullets, I can do a batch of 800+ bullets at a time in the kiln.
When properly annealed, you can crush a case with your fingers, and it doesn't matter whether the annealed brass is water quenched or air cooled, as it comes out the same either way. When I was annealing with a torch, I was dropping the annealed cases into water, just because it was safer than having hot brass laying in a pan I might end up inadvertantly touching. If using a torch, the entire case, including the base, must be heated to glowing red to anneal for use in bullets. Those cases must NEVER be used for loaded rounds again, except as bullets. This is very important, as there is no strength left in the case at all when fully annealed. If the case head isn't fully annealed, it won't swage out to the desired diameter. You're moving brass, which must be dead soft for this to work.
The citric acid bath is simply a mixture of hot water and about two teaspoons of pure citric acid per quart of water. The annealed brass is bathed in the solution for about half an hour or so, then rinsed in cool water. This can be done in a stainless steel container, glass or even plastic.
I bought 10 pounds of 100% pure citric acid from a food supply company on line, but you can also use Lemi-Shine, which is found in the housewares section of most large stores, and is used to clean dishwashers, coffee pots, etc. It requires a little more Lemi-Shine per quart, since it has a couple of other ingredients in it, and isn't 100% citric acid. Citric acid tastes like lemons, by the way, and you can make lemon juice from it, but not after you use it to clean your brass.......
The notching die I use was purchased from Brian Thurner, aka BTSniper, on the castboolits.com forum. It's not a necessary step, but it sure makes a better looking bullet. It also cost about as much as a complete set of dies from CH-4D, but in my opinion it was worth it for the finished results.
I use a CH-4D Cannelure tool for applying the cannelures to my bullets. This is a slow process and your hands will get weary if you have a lot of bullets to do. It does make a professional looking bullet, and for some unknown (to me) reason, makes the bullets more accurate on paper. Perhaps it provides for a better crimp, which makes for a better powder burn. I'm not sure, but I've obtained better groups with the bullets when cannelured.
Handgun bullet swaging can be done on an RCBS Rockchucker, as long as you don't over do it. The Rockchucker delivers a lot of pressure, but it's possible to break the linkage arms and smash the top of the ram, if not careful. I haven't damaged my Rockchucker, but I only use it for seating cores and notching cases. For the heavy lifting, I have a huge Hollywood Senior press which was designed for bullet swaging, along with reloading. The Rockchucker was also originally designed for swaging, but the cast linkage arms aren't the same as the original presses. The upside is, if you break a Rockchucker, RCBS will either replace, or repair, it free of charge.
This is just a brief overview of the process, but will give you an idea of what's involved.
Hope this helps.
Fred
http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m606/ReloaderFred/BulletSwaging003-1.jpg
ReloaderFred
Member
I'm hoping the pictures come through, since I'm a reloader, not a computer person......
Fred
ReloaderFred
Member
Picture of the individual steps involved in swaging bullets from cartridge cases:
Hope this helps.
Fred
PS: The pictures are large, but I haven't figured out how to make them smaller yet.
Hope this helps.
Fred
PS: The pictures are large, but I haven't figured out how to make them smaller yet.
jk2008
Member
Thank you, Fred, that was a great write-up. I really appreciate the time you took to explain the process in detail.
John
John
ReloaderFred
Member
You're welcome, John. Swaging is fun and satisfying, but if I had to do it to make money, it would be out of the question. I told a friend of mine, who is a commercial reloader, that I'd have to charge $2.00 per bullet to come out even. That may be an over estimate, but not by much....
You should have seen the looks on the faces of the engineers from Speer and Sierra when I gave them samples at the SHOT Show two months ago! It was priceless, but then they asked some serious questions about the process, mostly out of curiosity I'm sure. I pointed out to the engineer from Speer that Vernon Speer started out making bullets from fired .22 cases in his garage, but I certainly wasn't going into competition with them. He agreed that it was a novel approach to bullet making, but that it works.
Fred
You should have seen the looks on the faces of the engineers from Speer and Sierra when I gave them samples at the SHOT Show two months ago! It was priceless, but then they asked some serious questions about the process, mostly out of curiosity I'm sure. I pointed out to the engineer from Speer that Vernon Speer started out making bullets from fired .22 cases in his garage, but I certainly wasn't going into competition with them. He agreed that it was a novel approach to bullet making, but that it works.
Fred
blarby
Member
Fred for the win again !
You make some fantastic projectiles, Sir !
You make some fantastic projectiles, Sir !
41 Mag
Member
Hey Fred,
I was looking through the post pretty quick and sure thought those last picks of the HP's looked familiar. Then I scrolled back up and caught the part about BTSniper, and it all came together. I gotta be honest, he is looking hard for a chunk of my change.
He has plenty of info and is one heck of a fellow with an empty case and a chunk of lead. His creations are sometimes almost works of art.
Joed, you should look him up if your interested, while it is a bit steep he takes the Corbin stuff and reworks some of the wear pieces and such. His kits can usually be used on standard C-type presses as well. Most of his stuff in his videos looks to be standard anyway.
I am sure there are cases where a dedicated swage press would be more appropriate, but from what I have spoken to him about with my 41, and 454, I could easily use my Rock Chucker to put together some fine hunting bullets.
Thanks for sharing Fred, just adds a little more fuel to the slow burning ember BT got started. Oh yea, I also noted that big pile of shiny stuff there behind your oven, you really ought to box that nasty ol stuff and ship it off somewhere, I'd be happy to shoot you my address if needed.....
Take care,
I was looking through the post pretty quick and sure thought those last picks of the HP's looked familiar. Then I scrolled back up and caught the part about BTSniper, and it all came together. I gotta be honest, he is looking hard for a chunk of my change.
He has plenty of info and is one heck of a fellow with an empty case and a chunk of lead. His creations are sometimes almost works of art.
Joed, you should look him up if your interested, while it is a bit steep he takes the Corbin stuff and reworks some of the wear pieces and such. His kits can usually be used on standard C-type presses as well. Most of his stuff in his videos looks to be standard anyway.
I am sure there are cases where a dedicated swage press would be more appropriate, but from what I have spoken to him about with my 41, and 454, I could easily use my Rock Chucker to put together some fine hunting bullets.
Thanks for sharing Fred, just adds a little more fuel to the slow burning ember BT got started. Oh yea, I also noted that big pile of shiny stuff there behind your oven, you really ought to box that nasty ol stuff and ship it off somewhere, I'd be happy to shoot you my address if needed.....
Take care,
ReloaderFred
Member
41 Mag,
Those ingots represent about 1/3 of my current supply of alloy, and no, you can't have them! I'm always scrounging lead to feed my Master Caster and two bottom pour pots, though the Master Caster gets the most use lately. If you have any extra alloy, I have a home for wayward lead.........
BTSniper is reworking CH dies, and has a wholesale account with them. He changes the nose meplate and gives the finished bullet a different ogive. He does nice work, but is a little pricey, since his work is labor intensive. He also changes the ejection rods and adjustment nuts on the dies he reworks. I've done a couple of modifications on my dies, but not nearly as extensive as he has, since I don't have a machine shop at hand.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Those ingots represent about 1/3 of my current supply of alloy, and no, you can't have them! I'm always scrounging lead to feed my Master Caster and two bottom pour pots, though the Master Caster gets the most use lately. If you have any extra alloy, I have a home for wayward lead.........
BTSniper is reworking CH dies, and has a wholesale account with them. He changes the nose meplate and gives the finished bullet a different ogive. He does nice work, but is a little pricey, since his work is labor intensive. He also changes the ejection rods and adjustment nuts on the dies he reworks. I've done a couple of modifications on my dies, but not nearly as extensive as he has, since I don't have a machine shop at hand.
Hope this helps.
Fred
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