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Man arrested for (legally) open carrying AK47, scaring people.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Andrewsky, Jul 17, 2007.

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  1. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Grown up responsible people, dont just do things because they can or its a right. Common sense enters into most people's actions. Technically what he did was legal, up to the point where somone else felt they were in danger. Its not normal or appropriate for a person to be walking up and down the street in a wealthy residential neighborhood with a loaded AK clone.

    Technically I could legally go to the crack infested part of town and wave a big wad of hundred dollar bills around yelling racial slurs, excersizing my freedom of speech and expression. But a responsible person would not do that because its not a good idea for many reasons.

    If this gent was in my neighborhood, I would call the police, secure my family, and probably watch him through the scope of my loaded .308 rifle till they arrived.
     
  2. FourTeeFive

    FourTeeFive Member

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    And THAT is being "situationally aware and alert". I would do the same in my neighborhood.
     
  3. EVIL5LITER

    EVIL5LITER Member

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    Ok, I have a little more knowledge about the situation than the rest of you have, so allow me to interject.

    First off, discharging a firearm within city limits is illegal. So if he was carrying a loaded rifle, without it being slung over his shoulder, you're damned right I'm going to call the police.

    You don't carry a loaded AK up and down a heavily populated street. The closest thing you have to wildlife around here is squirrels.

    Secondly, if he's transporting it, why the **** is it loaded? It isn't like he was in Harlem.

    I don't want to hear about protection. I don't walk around with an AK that's loaded and ready to fire for protection from muggers.

    This guy got what he deserved.
     
  4. poor_richard

    poor_richard Member

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    I may be wrong, but it seems like we are hearing of more stories of people OC, and I believe it was just last month that there was a story of two brothers who were carrying rifles just because it was a right they thought they should exercise.

    I do agree it isn't a "normal" thing. Problem is, until the public is desensitized to the idea of a fellow citizen carrying a gun, the only way to for them to get used to it is OC. As for carrying a rifle, I can understand calling LEO to have him checked out. However, if he isn't breaking any law (he wasn't) he should be left to go on his way. Charging him with "disturbing the peace"... etc. is a trumped up charged, and is out of line. As Americans, we should be outraged at such tactics. It's the type of thing that one sees in a totalitarian society. Sadly, it seems to me that most people would rather live in Amerika. Situational awareness in calling the police is commendable, but celebrating the idea of such tactics as "finding" something to charge him with (just because he is carrying an AK) is despicable, and such people should be ashamed.

    What he did was lawful and legal. It's supposed to be "Ok" to carry a rifle down the street. If the police felt that there was something about him that warranted a little more scrutiny (other than just "carrying an AK"), then I applaud them, they did a good job. However, if they arrested him just because they don't like the idea of him walking down the street with an AK, then they are just plain wrong, and defending it is much worse.





    EVIL5LITER,

    Could you explain the "knowledge about the situation" you mention? What about this story do you know more than the rest of us?
     
  5. fletcher

    fletcher Member

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    I didn't even think about using that for comparison. However, the brothers were well-known in their small community, but it may have been because of their actions. That being said, Mobile is a bit larger.

    I still recall the general response to that article being "good for them", while for this situation, "he had no common sense".
     
  6. poor_richard

    poor_richard Member

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    Another lesson learned from that situation was that the police would have preferred it if the brothers had let them know "ahead of time" so that the police could have been better prepared for the inevitable calls to come.
     
  7. wjustinen

    wjustinen Member

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    It is a simple matter of choice. If it is lawful and an individual chooses to do it, that should suffice. If it were a situation that didn't involve the 2A, I would suggest that you make a case for why it should not be lawful.

    Given "shall not be infringed" that doesn't apply.
     
  8. TheFederalistWeasel

    TheFederalistWeasel member

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    While what he did might be legal, resulting in no firearms related charges-- hence the DOC charge.

    The one thing that is glaringly obvious here is just how stupid this guy is/was and I mean stupid on a genetic level. Do you really want this guy associated with the cause of open carry / CCW?

    Personally instead of disorderly conduct they should have charged him with occupying a human body while stupid...

    I tell you what lets all load up on long guns and go to the mall or downtown and prance around, see how long before the SWAT team shows up and a good number of you end up worm food.

    When your dumb you gotta be tough...
     
  9. FeebMaster

    FeebMaster Member

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    Personally, I find the idea of some crackpot ready to snipe a guy walking down the street from his living room to be more disturbing than a guy just walking down the street carrying a weapon.
     
  10. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    We have a shotgun range on mainstreet.. I don't think anyone would give a hoot if they saw any of us walking around with a shotgun or rifle...
     
  11. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    So, anyone yet have this guy's side of the story?

    My guess would have to be that this guy wasn't just a gun enthusiast out trying to enjoy his rights, as I have yet to hear of any pro-gun organization outcrying his rights have been deprived.
     
  12. romma

    romma Member

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    I'll tell you, I wish American citizens were armed with rifles on the Mexican border Carrying open with loaded mags inserted into the wells...
     
  13. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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    jefnvk, there might be 3 reasons why we haven't heard his side of the story.
    1, his lawyer has advised him not to speak about it. 2, what gun rights organization is there in Alabama to support him? 3, he has never heard of THR or knows that his story is being discussed here or elsewhere.
     
  14. keeleon

    keeleon Member

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    Considering there was no range or "hunting " area near where this took place, I don't see how that is relevant. Of course if you can see a logical reason he might be carrying it, then you would probably have less people being afraid.

    I do not think the guy should be arrested or have his gun confiscated if he was within the law. I also don't thinbk there should be charges against him if he wasn't acting in a manner that would incite them, just because some old guy got scared. I do think the cops should have been called, and should have come and talked to him. I do think the cops should have told him to put it away and that he was scaring the public. If he refused, or was caught later doing it after being warned with "common sense" and "prudence", then he SHOULD get in trouble.

    I live in SoCal, in an area where there is no size limit on fixed blade knives as long as they aren't concealed. Theorettically, should I walk down main street with a cold steel katana on my side just to "exercise my rights"? How well do you think that will go over? Will the cops harrass me? You bet they will, and I KNOW they will. And they probably know I know they will as well. Therefore if I do commit this (perfectly legal) act, I am in fact going out of my way to cause problems. Does that sound like a good idea?

    Keep in mind in this example I am using a nonfiring weapon that IS in it's scabbard, but something people aren't used to seeing. This guy had a "loaded" AK47 out in plain sight. Slung or not tell me which one is scarier?
     
  15. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel member

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    Having not read the article, here's my take.

    In some situations it may be appropriate to call the police if a guy is walking down the street with an AK47, and in some situations it may be normal behavior.

    I won't question the police stopping to ask this guy some questions. Provided he's not up to no good, let him go. If otherwise, further action may be needed.

    Situational awareness is key.
     
  16. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Uh, I have gone outside with my Saiga in AK configuration in plain view and the local LEO drove by and waved ???

    So I don't see what the "!!!" is about, we're all pretty much armed here...
     
  17. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    Master Blaster/ Four tee five- Pointing a rifle at someone not in self defense is normally considered assault. This may be a felony depending upon the laws of your respective state. I would discourage you from such illegal activity and ask that you reconsider such foolish actions.
     
  18. pbonebright

    pbonebright Member

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    An interesting contrast to this story is the story of the Imams in the airport that passengers said were acting suspiciously. Another completely legal constitutionally protected activity, they were simply exercising their rights to free expression of religious faith. In this case, the people reporting the activity are likely to be sued for violating civil rights. But don't hold your breath for any of these ACLU types to run to the gun guy's defense or start suing the neighbors. Typical double-standard being applied.
     
  19. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    True, longwatch, never thoughta bout the availabliity of pro-gun orgs in Alabama.
     
  20. wjustinen

    wjustinen Member

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    Evil5liter

    An unloaded AK is just a very heavy paperweight.

    Sorry you feel that way, but current philosophy seems to be that a pistol is just something to use while you make your way to your rifle. Perhaps, since it was lawful to carry the rifle, he decided to skip the less effective alternative.

    In any event, while you and I both have a right to express our opinion as to how "stupid" his actions were, his right to carry the AK trumps both of us because it is protected in the constitution by the "shall not be infringed" statement; while no such protection exists for our free speech.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2007
  21. flynlr

    flynlr Member

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    disorderly conduct hmmm thats the best they can do?. my wife accuses me of that all the time.
     
  22. defcon1

    defcon1 Member

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    I find it disturbing when an American citizen, threatening no one, harming no one, is arrested for exercising a declared Constitutional right. If a citizen may be charged and convicted of disturbing the peace for exercising a right, then it may be truely said that the right no longer exists. Citizens have no right not to be alarmed. Law cannot be defined such that a citizen becoming "alarmed" is cause for legal action against another citizen. Such would be WAY too subjective and open to all manner of abuse. I have no problem with those who were "alarmed" calling the police, or the police checking out the situation, but that it where it should have ended. If the citizen with the gun appears to pose no threat, he should have been allowed to continue on his way, the neighbors calmed and told that no laws have been broken.
     
  23. gopguy

    gopguy Member

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    I am not surprised that people reacted this way, that is to say the folks in Mobile AL. The news has conditioned them to when you see a Kalashnikov rifle it means mayhem. However I can tell you when we had open carry in Ohio and the period from April 2004 to March of this year that we had to open carry in our cars. Hence folks saw guns on our hips at gas stations. All levels of law enforcement in this state were getting constant calls of men and women with a gun. Which usually resulted with a traffic stop, exchange of information. The CCW license shown and the person went on their way.

    It will take a long time to win over the non gunner in the USA. They have been too conditioned to gun=crime, slaughter etc...With the anti gunner, forget it. Those folks usually only convert after being a victim of a crime, that is if the event does not further convince them of their misguided convictions .

    The man broke no laws and legally owned property was improperly confiscated. I suspect a lawsuit may spring from this.
     
  24. longwatch

    longwatch Member

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    Didn't see this update posted

    http://tinyurl.com/2sf9zz

    Teen arrested after seen with AK-47-style rifle
    Wednesday, July 18, 2007
    By RON COLQUITT
    Staff Reporter

    Mobile police arrested Michael McLeod Freeman, 19, Monday evening and charged him with disorderly conduct in connection with Freeman carrying a semiautomatic AK-47-style rifle through the Spring Hill neighborhood where he lives, officials said.

    Freeman was taken to Mobile County Metro Jail, where he was released on $250 bail, jail records show.

    While it is not illegal to carry such a rifle, a Mobile police spokesman said that it is unlawful to alarm people in the community. That is why Freeman was charged with disorderly conduct, Officer Eric Gallichant said.

    Members of Freeman's family declined comment Tuesday, referring questions about the incident to family attorney Paul Brown. Brown could not be reached for comment.

    Freeman graduated from St. Paul's Episcopal School in May 2006, according to a Press-Register story.

    Sean P. Costello, who lives near the Freeman family, said Monday that his gardener spotted Freeman with the rifle about 6 p.m. Friday walking along

    Oakwood and Dilston lanes. Freeman did not point the rifle at anyone or threaten anyone, Costello said.

    Costello said Freeman was also carrying a 30-round magazine, but it had not been inserted into the rifle at that time.

    The gardener was so frightened that he left the area, Costello said. A bullet can be loaded in the chamber of a semiautomatic rifle even when the magazine is not inserted.

    Gallichant said that police confiscated the rifle after they arrived at Freeman's home and found it loaded with a magazine in it. The police report on the incident did not say whether the rifle was loaded at the time Freeman was carrying it through the neighborhood, just that it was loaded when it was confiscated, Gallichant said.

    The rifle had not been returned to the Freemans as of Tuesday afternoon, he said. Also, he said that investigators had not determined where Freeman got the gun.

    Larry McCoy, owner of Larry's Gun Shop on Pleasant Valley Road just off Government Boulevard, said Monday that anyone 18 or older who is not a convicted felon can legally purchase a semiautomatic, AK-47-style rifle.

    McCoy said he sells them only to people 21 or older because he does not consider a teenager mature enough to buy such a rifle.

    An employee of Larry's Gun Shop said Tuesday there was no record of Freeman buying the rifle from them.
     
  25. Sonora Rebel

    Sonora Rebel Member

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    Quote "I'll tell you, I wish American citizens were armed with rifles on the Mexican border Carrying open with loaded mags inserted into the wells...


    Some of us DO! :)


    'Havng read this Disorderly Conduct charge... and the situation that prompted it... This case is one of perception on the part of the complainant 'n not due to any direct action on the part of the accused. In other words... this is unfounded hysterics. Thank the MSM for this nonsense. I think both the complainant 'n the cops overreacted. Siezing the weapon was a violation of the 2nd Ammendment under the circumstances. So it was in his home 'n loaded. So what? A rifle... (this one unloaded apparently when being carried) is nothing more than another firearm. Can you open carry a pistol in Alabama? I'm assuming so. Here in southern Arizona... I could prob'ly carry anything... 'long as I didn't point it at anybody in a threatening manner. I carry a pistol (1911-A1, openly) daily. 'Lotta 'snowbirds' 'n U of AZ students have never seen this and often freak. :what: I have a rather sinister lookin' (all black) pre-ban AK clone 'n an AR as well. The AR is a dead ringer for an M-16... (preban). I don't shlep either one around in public areas... (altho I could) 'cause it's a little 'over the top' 'n cumbersome. AND... some people would get excited. I recently bought a gun bag that will accept either one of these weapons (with side pockets for magazines)... $25.00. This is just in case I check in to some motel out on the road some nite 'n don't freak out the desk clerk 'n guests. :eek: When I travel around long distance... I carry somethin' heavier than the .45acp in the truck. Now... out here in the hinters (west of the Tucsons) ... it's a different story. Yer liable to see most anything. What it boils down to is personal responsibility. If you're not wavin' it around... bein' a goof... it's perfectly legal. You people in the 'restricted' areas of the country may find this disturbing... 'cause you're not used to it.
     
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