griz
Member
Big news flash here Major, those people were not a law enforcement agency! Time for the city and the company to get out their wallets.
Managers 'petrified' by robbery training session
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Big news flash here Major, those people were not a law enforcement agency! Time for the city and the company to get out their wallets.
This is incredibly scary. Imagine if a respectable citizen who happened to be carrying illegally was caught in the store at the time and shot both cops.
Could it also be a 5th Amendment violation? Police forcing an illegally armed citizen to draw a gun or face (what the citizen could reasonably assume would be) potential execution...
Could it also be a 5th Amendment violation? Police forcing an illegally armed citizen to draw a gun or face (what the citizen could reasonably assume would be) potential execution...
45R
Member
Did anyone question....
that in this" training scenario" , why were the "informed managers" told by the police to not have the video recorders on. What purpose of training is this if you can't assess what happened corectly or not. It sounded like the cops wanted to have a bit to much fun with this group and not want any proof of it .
Just my two cents,
dave
that in this" training scenario" , why were the "informed managers" told by the police to not have the video recorders on. What purpose of training is this if you can't assess what happened corectly or not. It sounded like the cops wanted to have a bit to much fun with this group and not want any proof of it .
Just my two cents,
dave
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Hmm.
Big lawsuits all around, and for once I don't see a problem with it.
As for the cops using 'unloaded' weapons, I seem to recall something about gun safety rule number one.
Something along the lines of, oh yeah
All guns are always loaded.
Of course I s'pose it's only a matter of time before there's a mixup and a live round somehow makes it into a supposedly 'unloaded' gun. After all, I've seen more than one article lamenting some poor officer getting unintentionally shot during a training exercise.
Big lawsuits all around, and for once I don't see a problem with it.
As for the cops using 'unloaded' weapons, I seem to recall something about gun safety rule number one.
Something along the lines of, oh yeah
All guns are always loaded.
Of course I s'pose it's only a matter of time before there's a mixup and a live round somehow makes it into a supposedly 'unloaded' gun. After all, I've seen more than one article lamenting some poor officer getting unintentionally shot during a training exercise.
semf
member
Yeah David the absence of video is the first thing that struck me as odd.
Forgetting about he possibility of someone carrying a handgun or other weapon during the incident. what would have happened if, when the "actors" returned and told the group that they had been Xed, one of the victims had jumped up and beat hell out of as many of these jerks as he could or encouraged the others to jump in. What if any charges could have stuck to these managers.
Forgetting about he possibility of someone carrying a handgun or other weapon during the incident. what would have happened if, when the "actors" returned and told the group that they had been Xed, one of the victims had jumped up and beat hell out of as many of these jerks as he could or encouraged the others to jump in. What if any charges could have stuck to these managers.
sm
member
Agree with Justin, just a matter of time.
There is a place for training and instruction --Under a controlled enviroment!! I bet a bunch of off duty LEO wouldn't try a stunt say by dressing as BG Terroists and barging into roll call..."just to see if the their brethern are awake and paying attention".
I/We had had a rash of hold-ups many years ago in another life. Young punk smart-aleck kid of a business owner's next door thought it would be "cute" to run in our business and yell "This is a hold-up!".
Well he wet himself, not sure if it was the two guns up front he saw first or the sound of me racking one in the chamber of a model 37 then seeing me with it. Thank Goodness fingers off triggers and employee up front yelled out "friendly". Guns safed, kids dad called, whom promptly chewed him a new one. He will never do that "cute stunt" again. In fact he toned down quite a bit after that day.
I CCW everywhere...hope no numbskulls get any bright ideas about surprise employee visits around here...
There is a place for training and instruction --Under a controlled enviroment!! I bet a bunch of off duty LEO wouldn't try a stunt say by dressing as BG Terroists and barging into roll call..."just to see if the their brethern are awake and paying attention".
I/We had had a rash of hold-ups many years ago in another life. Young punk smart-aleck kid of a business owner's next door thought it would be "cute" to run in our business and yell "This is a hold-up!".
Well he wet himself, not sure if it was the two guns up front he saw first or the sound of me racking one in the chamber of a model 37 then seeing me with it. Thank Goodness fingers off triggers and employee up front yelled out "friendly". Guns safed, kids dad called, whom promptly chewed him a new one. He will never do that "cute stunt" again. In fact he toned down quite a bit after that day.
I CCW everywhere...hope no numbskulls get any bright ideas about surprise employee visits around here...
thumbtack
Member
I can not believe people are still doing this.
Certainly none of us here are in favor of frivilous lawsuits, but this crosses the line IMO. I hope the employees who were unwittingly a part of this sue the company and/or the police dept for mental distress or something. Why would it have been so hard to tell the managers that they were there to participate in armed robbery training? I wonder what would have happened if one of the managers was CCW or even carrying at work with the permission of his boss and smoked the "cops." Would he still be charged with murder of a peace officer?
45r's 'smiley' sums it up very well.
And we can all 'armchair quarterback' this thing, but let us take a look at 1 possible....
State Police/Deputy Sheriff, etc with no knowledge of this [ahem] training rolls up, and sees 2 guys with masks, shottys, and folks on the floor......well, what do you think he is going to guess is happening ? ? ?
REAL likely to have a few dead/seriously injured officers after the smoke clears.
I can't even begins to count (with both shoes and gloves off) how many ways this makes LESS THAN ZERO SENSE. We can only hope that the parties that thought up AND approved this mess are left hanging out to dry while slowly twisting in the wind.
And we can all 'armchair quarterback' this thing, but let us take a look at 1 possible....
State Police/Deputy Sheriff, etc with no knowledge of this [ahem] training rolls up, and sees 2 guys with masks, shottys, and folks on the floor......well, what do you think he is going to guess is happening ? ? ?
REAL likely to have a few dead/seriously injured officers after the smoke clears.
I can't even begins to count (with both shoes and gloves off) how many ways this makes LESS THAN ZERO SENSE. We can only hope that the parties that thought up AND approved this mess are left hanging out to dry while slowly twisting in the wind.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
I cannot believe idiots still walk the streets who would perform a "training session" like this. Just to begin with, if it's for "training purposes" the camera darn well /should/ be live and recording for post-training assessment.
As many have said, this could have easily ended with two dead police officers. Nebraska, however, does not allow legal concealed carry by civilians. As far as I'm concerned, it would have been a justified killing if someone had shot the two officers during the "training session."
I hope they sue the pants off the company, the police department the two cops work for, and the two cops personally.
As many have said, this could have easily ended with two dead police officers. Nebraska, however, does not allow legal concealed carry by civilians. As far as I'm concerned, it would have been a justified killing if someone had shot the two officers during the "training session."
I hope they sue the pants off the company, the police department the two cops work for, and the two cops personally.
armoredman
Member
A similiar incident happened to one of my former coworkers with AT Systems. When he was picking up a major dept stores' money on Halloween, the girl in the office answered a knock at the door, then backed in slwly, hands in the air. In walked a man with a Batman mask on, and a gun in his belt. Dan drew down on the guy. It was very fortunate for him the gun was in his pants, and not in his hand, as it turned out to be the STORE MANAGER, who thought it would be FUNNY to do that! He literally soiled himself at the sight of Dans SIG pointed at his face.
The above incident you guys describe is ridiculous and stupid, and a lawsuit is in order!
The above incident you guys describe is ridiculous and stupid, and a lawsuit is in order!
TonyB
Member
I work in a state mental hospital.A couple of years back,some people thought they were going to another facility for a meeting.When they got there,they were treated like patients...their stuff taken away, shoes and belts taken and they were admitted to a unit and stayed for 2 days......they of course freaked out...as far as i know no one sued....i would have.......the admin. said it would increase empathy among staff.....it would inrease a distrust of admin. if you ask me........amazing
Andrew Rothman
Member
Take a minute and tell the chief what an incredibly dangerous and idiotic thing he did.
http://www.nebraskapolice.info/CitiesofNebraska/Schuyler.html
Police Chief Leonard Hiltner
1020 A St.
Schuyler, NE 68661
(402) 352-2415
They have a mayor and city council:
Mayor Mary Peschel
City of Schuyler
1103 B St.
Schuyler,Nebraska 68661
Phone: (402) 352-3101
Fax: (402) 352-3114
E-mail: [email protected]
http://www.nebraskapolice.info/CitiesofNebraska/Schuyler.html
Police Chief Leonard Hiltner
1020 A St.
Schuyler, NE 68661
(402) 352-2415
They have a mayor and city council:
Mayor Mary Peschel
City of Schuyler
1103 B St.
Schuyler,Nebraska 68661
Phone: (402) 352-3101
Fax: (402) 352-3114
E-mail: [email protected]
cxm
Member
Disaster Waiting to Happen
The training was absolutely irresponsible... both on the part of the company AND the cops.
Imagine if armed customers had been there... cops, feds... hunters etc. We would have seen dead cops with empty guns drawn.... can you envision the reaction by the local cops to that sort of outcome?
The police and company deserve everything the lawyers inflict on them in this case.
FWIW
Chuck
The training was absolutely irresponsible... both on the part of the company AND the cops.
Imagine if armed customers had been there... cops, feds... hunters etc. We would have seen dead cops with empty guns drawn.... can you envision the reaction by the local cops to that sort of outcome?
The police and company deserve everything the lawyers inflict on them in this case.
FWIW
Chuck
HankB
Member
If I point a gun at someone, it doesn't have to be loaded in order for me to be charged with assault and various other sundry charges - I won't be able to laugh it off and get away with saying "Just Kidding" or "Training Session."
What if one of the unwitting "trainees" had a heart attack or stroke, or injured themselves diving behind the counter?
The "officers" with shotguns ought to be criminally prosecuted ex-police.
What if one of the unwitting "trainees" had a heart attack or stroke, or injured themselves diving behind the counter?
The "officers" with shotguns ought to be criminally prosecuted ex-police.
Daniel T
Member
That's insane. It boggles the mind.
But hey, the cops were just following orders, right? And I'm sure the employees signed a waiver at the time of hire too.
But hey, the cops were just following orders, right? And I'm sure the employees signed a waiver at the time of hire too.
This has got to be one of the most irresponsible things I've ever seen. I can't believe that people sat around, talked about this, and executed it. I wonder what the police would think if a couple of teenagers pulling a prank did the exact same thing or if someone was hurt or killed. Would they be able to just "get over it".:banghead: 
:banghead:
:banghead: 
Zundfolge
Member
No legal CCW in Nebraska?
Not quite. Many of the states without CCW still allow you to carry at home or work (when I lived in Kansas it was worded something like "at your place of business").
From Packing.org
I believe that working at a Stop-N-Rob would "justify a prudent person in carrying the weapon or weapons for defense of his or her person, property, or family".
At any rate, even if not armed with a firearm, what would stop a young, strong man from taking the shottie from the "robber" and beating him to death with it?
All I can say is Stupid, Stupid, Stupid! :banghead:
Not quite. Many of the states without CCW still allow you to carry at home or work (when I lived in Kansas it was worded something like "at your place of business").
From Packing.org
I believe that working at a Stop-N-Rob would "justify a prudent person in carrying the weapon or weapons for defense of his or her person, property, or family".
At any rate, even if not armed with a firearm, what would stop a young, strong man from taking the shottie from the "robber" and beating him to death with it?
All I can say is Stupid, Stupid, Stupid! :banghead:
ENC
Member
semi-related story in OK
Last year sometime I was watching the local (OKC) news. They were doing a story on safety while driving. The newscaster and cameraman were down in the city. Everytime the light would turn red they would sneek up on cars and jerk the door open. They were doing this to raise awareness about locking doors while driving. Many of these people were suprised. I imagine they left out the ones where the newscaster caught hell. I don't know how fast they could have been shot if a CCW had been a little quick to the trigger.
Last year sometime I was watching the local (OKC) news. They were doing a story on safety while driving. The newscaster and cameraman were down in the city. Everytime the light would turn red they would sneek up on cars and jerk the door open. They were doing this to raise awareness about locking doors while driving. Many of these people were suprised. I imagine they left out the ones where the newscaster caught hell. I don't know how fast they could have been shot if a CCW had been a little quick to the trigger.
Cosmoline
Member
I'm usually very anti-plaintiff. But in this case if I were on the jury I'd want to shut this company down forever and personally kick the crap out of whoever thought this up. It's corporate arrogance at its finest.
BTW, I'd love to see more suits from the "don't resist" policy.
BTW, I'd love to see more suits from the "don't resist" policy.
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