Mandatory DNA samples from convicted felons...

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Well, mine is on file. I have mixed feelings on it. It has been good for some.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/

187 people have been found innocent. These are people who were convicted. Years of there lives stolen. Innocent "felons".
I wonder how much it will cost these innocent people to get thier rights back. $Ks.
 
Don't confuse "felon" with "dangerous criminal." Many men are felons who are not dangerous criminals.
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DNA good or bad aside.....
I consider white collar criminals just as dangerous. So what if they didn't shoot people. They may have screwed someone of their life savings. That isn't a parking violation IMO.
 
Virginia has required all adults convicted of a felony to provide a DNA sample for more than 15 years. Since 2003, arrestees for violent crimes must also provide a sample.
Who is required to provide a sample for entry of the resulting DNA profile into the Virginia DNA Data Bank?

All individuals who have been convicted of a felony offense on or after July 1, 1990 (Code of Virginia § 19.2-310.2) and juveniles 14 years or older who are convicted of a felony or adjudicated delinquent on the basis on an act which would be a felony if committed by an adult (Code of Virginia § 16.1-299.1) are required to provide a blood or buccal (cheek cells) sample for DNA analysis, with incorporation of the resulting DNA profile into the Virginia DNA Data Bank. Additionally, as of January 1, 2003, any individual arrested for a violent felony crime (Code of Virginia § 19.2-310.2:1) must provide a buccal sample for DNA analysis, with the resultant profile incorporated into the Virginia DNA Data Bank (Code of Virginia § 19.2-310.5).
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http://www.dfs.virginia.gov/services/forensicBiology/faq.cfm#19

-twency
 
You know what DNA savvy british crooks do?

When they steal a car, they leave biological material collected from pubs all around the city in it. Hair, skin flakes, etc..

Ashtray has cigarrete butts from 30 different people in it.

The cops love it.


I wouldn't have anything against either universal surveillance
If it was done in a manner that would prevent abuse ..
(Such as someone found a way to ask God who did it and why. Since he has not yet been scientifically proved to exist... )

White collar crime is imho worse than violent one.
(Stealing the retirement funds of a thousand people vs killing one person..
one dead / vs 1000 people miserable and cheated)

I think every politician should be wired and bugged, his every word recorded, transcribed and eventually released to the public. (though a one hour off period while he is home with his wife/dominant hand should be allowed, as long as no one else is nearby).
 
The less the government knows about honest men, the better.

My position, which is the right one :)

DNA db for convicted felons = AOK

DNA db for arrestees = I'd have to know the expungement policy, level of violation before collections etc. perhaps not OK by a big margin. Each state is making up there own rules at present as I understand it.

Universal DNA dbing = Heii no for anyone who considers themselves a critical thinker. Terrible idea.

We need not all be in that db anyway. LE has a couple of avenues they can explore to get that sample today!

BTW ART and others (not taking a potshot here, respect you guys too much)

Post conviction exoneration based on DNA is a great thing but one has to think twice about empowering a legal (not-justice) system with the tools for universal DNA dbing. {see my 1st line] Remember that this is the same system that had the technology to analyze critical evidence and get that exoneration but they sat on it for what 10, 15, nearly 20 years. For every post conviction case that has been overturned based on DNA, how many do you guess are still being held up but prosecutors, judges etc? And this is the same system some would have me supply a sample from my kids........I think that idea is not ready for prime time :).

S-
 
D
NA db for convicted felons = AOK

DNA db for arrestees = I'd have to know the expungement policy, level of violation before collections etc. perhaps not OK by a big margin. Each state is making up there own rules at present as I understand it.

Universal DNA dbing = Heii no for anyone who considers themselves a critical thinker. Terrible idea.
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I might take issue with the collection of DNA samples for arrestees. But I certainly wouldn't have a problems with its collectiona and storage for convicted felons. One more tool to keep the REAL scumbags off the streets, and, on a positive note, a tool to assure no innocent people get convisted of crimes they didn't commit.
 
Again, we have it all backwards.

I fear politicians & lawmakers more than felons. Hence our focus should be to keep tabs on the former, not the latter.
 
DNA is self-replicating and techniologies also exist to make exact copies. This is not true of fingerprints, photographs, etc. which degrade in quality every time a physical copy is made. Is someone plants your fingerprint somewhere, it can be determined to be a copy rather than an original. If someone plants your DNA, it is indistinguishable from the original.

Collecting and databasing DNA is fine for convicted felons who have lost their rights to privacy via due process. This presents some burden on crime labs, but it increases the employment rates of forensic scientists. If a government entity is willing to bear the cost, I've got no problem with it.

Collecting and databasing DNA from the general public is more problematic and we should resist efforts to allow this without a search warrant. Looking at someone's DNA is the ultimate invasion or privacy, especially with the rise of bioinformatics. Within a few short years, they will be able to tell an awful lot about you from your DNA. It is the most invasive search possible.

Collecting and databasing DNA from the general public also places an undue burden on the existing analysis facilities, which can hardly keep pace with the felons. Expanding the DNA analysis capabilities to handle the general public (or any substantial fraction of it not justified by criminal convictions) is simply too expensive.)

A final point against databasing DNA is that it is useless in distinguishing between identical twins (of which I am one). If my twin commits a crime, I don't want to be accused of it because my DNA comes up in the data base.

In other words, it is a lie that DNA is as unique as a fingerprint. Nothing has been proven to be truly as unique as a fingerprint. This claim is a fallacious rhetorical selling point used to convince juries regarding forensic evidence of various types. It is not true.

Michael Courtney, PhD
Director of Forensic Science Program
Western Carolina University
 
Here's a poser that I just can't decide where I stand on: If a convicted felon has finished out his sentence and been released, should the data be purged?

On the one hand, since recidivism is rampant, (and prior history is probably the most telling predictor of future behavior) we should NOT purge that database. After all, we don't get rid of fingerprint records, photographs, or other identifying information.

On the other hand, if a man has paid his debt to society, and is no longer considered a danger (and why would you release a dangerous man back into the public arena?) shouldn't he get all his rights back? Including the right to privacy?
 
I think people are losing sight of the ideals of America. Not to create a nanny state, giving as many tools to those in power as possible to protect you and then paying enormous tax $ to fund it. But to live free and have the rights and ability to defend your freedom and the freedom of your fellow americans.

If people pass every idea that they feel sounds good we will end up with an economy based on government employment to oversee all of the 'good ideas'.
An economy where a large percent of the population is government employed or is sheeple is not a free people.

If you want the best of science to protect you, and believe it works go live in a European nation that subscribes to those ideas.

Being free is not the easiest lifestyle, some of us just feel it is the best.
It is easier to live in a country where negative subcultures are not allowed media propaganda and the freedom of speech is gone. It is easier in countries where nobody can have a good idea and rise to the top, but also are protected from falling below the poverty line. You can make any increase in government oversight, and decrease in freedom sound logical. But it sure is not Freedom and what attracted so many ancestors.

People need to realize they are not trapped where they currently live and can move and live all over the world. If you like a nanny government and stormtroopers being relied on to protect you and your loved ones go somewhere else because we are running out of free nations in the world but there is plenty of 'succesful' places like Europe you can move to.
 
I dislike the arrestee samples; many arrestees will turn out to be innocent, and a precedent for sampling innocent people is bad, IMHO.

And, I don't know that sampling ALL felons is such a good idea. Unless the conviction is for a crime where DNA is relevant (e.g. rape) it's really no different than sampling someone who is NOT a felon. If there is no connection with the crime, what justifies it? A felon may lose some rights, but not ALL rights; why should an embezzler be required to give a sample when his un-indicted partner does not?
In fact, if there is no connection between the crime and DNA, the loss of privacy rights is just an additional punishment for the felon, and you could argue that it is cruel & unusual, since it is irrelevant to the crime in question.
It might also be a violation of due process, since there is no probable cause for the privacy violation.
 
Because we are the master, and the government is the servant.
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And that's a valid reason to require DNA samples from the guy that picks up my garbage, the old lady crossing guard, the university student who works parttime in the university cafeteria, the guy mowing the grass at the city-owned golf course, and the high school kid who has a summer job with the city? They are all employed by a government entity. If you're going to advocate that, might just as well advocate DNAing everyone at birth.
 
Convicted Felons?

Hey, registration is okay, right? I mean, if you have nothing to hide . . .

Remember this: you may be completely law-abiding today. Your daily routine, your hobbies and habits, your personal activities may all be completely legal.

Today.

And tomorrow, someone signs a bill into law, and your hobby, your property, your personal activities just became illegal.

No. I have nothing to hide. Everything I do is legal. Until someone passes a law that criminalizes some possession, some activity that I have come to regard as a worthwhile, legitimate, healthy passtime -- including just OWNING something.

I believe Ayn Rand remarked that the government creates criminals (essentially out of thin air) by legislating into existence crimes that no one can avoid committing, giving them their continuing reason to exist and the power to dominate.

I don't think a data bank of this sort is any sort of good idea.

I bought a perfectly legal pocket knife (the Buck 112 Founder's Edition) on sale yesterday. I believe the blade is shorter than 3 inches. Which is legal, just about anywhere that doesn't have wings or a judge.

Until the year 2012, that is, when all folding knives are reclassified as "concealable weapons" and outlawed, and all sales records in the last ten years that tie back to the buyers (because, of course, biometrics is universal) are used to target the known owners.

And compliance is entirely reasonable, because it's (all together now) FOR THE CHILDREN.

I have a better Idea.

Put an explosive collar on all legislators. Tie it to a computer-controlled broadcast system. The collar can only be activated by a verified supermajority (say, 75%) of the population in protest of any law authored or sponsored by said legislator that clearly violates a constitutional principal.

I'm not sure about higher court judges, but they might well also need a collar.

You would no longer need a recall vote.

Legislators would be hugely circumspect in the laws they submit.

Then, I think, we'd be controlling the right body of criminals.
 
The less the government knows about honest men, the better.

My position, which is the right one

DNA db for convicted felons = AOK
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One thing I see on here often is many posters here think a man isn't obligated to obey an unjust law. Right now in Illinois if I carry a firearm to protect myself and my loved ones that runs me the risk of a felony. I run the risk of it being a felony for me to keep an ar15 if some legislators have their way in the future. No one will be harmed by either action and by most people's accounts I'm an honest man.

When we think of felonies we think of rape and murder but there is alot more than that.
 
How does a DNA sample apply to writing a bad check, fudgeing on taxes, smoking a joint,or not paying child support. Prevention??
 
The collar idea was in a science fiction story, some forty or fifty years back. A guy was newly arrived on a planet, broke some law out of ignorance, and was sentenced to be President until he'd made some 50.1% of the populace mad enough to create a positive electronic signal to the collar. If he survived for a year or two, he was released.

Gives a whole new meaning to "judicious decisions".

:), Art
 
In other words, it is a lie that DNA is as unique as a fingerprint. Nothing has been proven to be truly as unique as a fingerprint. This claim is a fallacious rhetorical selling point used to convince juries regarding forensic evidence of various types. It is not true.
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Go read something about it. .. or shuffle off to the grave.
DNA is unique*. Only identical twins share the same genetic code (they are clones in fact-- natural but though no one has yet proposed to outlaw them)

*though currently used sequencing methods may not be perfect--- but they are improving afaik.. and collection policy is very important)
 
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