Manual Discrepancy. What to expect?

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Sport45

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In a .44mag I loaded 26.5gr of WW296 under a Hornady 200gr JHP. Now I wonder what kind of velocity to expect.

My Lee (1st ed.) Shows 27gr of H110 to give a 210gr bullet a velocity of 1848fps at 36,000CUP. My Speer Number Nine shows 27.2gr of WW296 to push a 200gr JHP to only 1493fps. Given that H110 and WW296 are (arguably*) the same stuff, what would make the lesser load under a heavier bullet give 355fps more velocity? I can't imagine 10gr of lead accounting for a significant increase in seating depth.

Edited by Sport45: I've read several testimonies written by folks who were supposedly in contact with Hodgdon or Winchester saying that these were indeed the same powder and differences from one to another was no more than differences from lot to lot of either. I chose to believe they are the same but do not wish to impose my beliefs on anyone else. Until the truth of the matter is spelled out in black and white in Hodgdon's literature each should draw his/her own conclusion on this matter.
 
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Weird. Does it say what kind of guns or barrels were used to fire the data?

Look again... is it possible that the faster load is 'Rifle Data' and fired out of a rifle? Reloading books generally have .44mag listed TWICE... once in the rifle section, and again in the pistol section.

StrikeEagle
 
Does it say what kind of guns or barrels were used to fire the data?
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The Speer book shows to be a 7-1/2" Blackhawk. Lee doesn't list the test gun or the specific bullet. I think the data in the Lee book is just a compilation of data from other sources such as bullet and powder manufacturers.
 
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Hornadies #5 shows 28.7 H110 under a 200 gr HP-XTP for 1500 fps in a 7 1/2 Ruger. The books loads for a 14" TC Contender has 29.5 grs with the 200 gr XTP at 2000fps.
The Speer #13 says 28.5 grs with THEIR 200 gr JHP runs 1688 fps in a 7.5" barrel The same load in a 20" rifle clocks 2116 fps.
One can change the bullet or other component being used or barrel lgt and never see the same numbers twice.
Whenever possible use the data for the exact same bullet you are loading and if possible stay with the same cases, primers, and of course powder. vary with any of these components and your result will vary also. Then too two similar guns usually don`t give the same result with the exact same loads either.
 
Given that H110 and WW296 are the same stuff,
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They are no more the same stuff than H4985 and IMR4895.

One will burn slightly faster than the other. Consult a burn rate chart and it will tell you.

That's a dangerous assumption to make, IMO.
 
Sport;

Hornady 6th edition, page 815, volume 1. Hornday 200 gr HP-XTP with Win 296 powder: 26 gr = 1750 fps, 26.7 gr = 1800 fps. H110 powder, 26.3 gr = 1750 fps, 27 gr = 1800 fps. Test gun was a T/C with a 14" barrel.

Speer #13, page 565. Speer 200 gr JHP with 296 powder: 26 gr, starting load = 1521 fps, max load 28 gr = 1639. With H110 powder 26.5 starting load = 1590 fps, max load 28.5 gr = 1688 fps. Test gun was a Ruger Redhawk with a 7.5" barrel.

I would say that the manual data argues effectively that these are not the same powders in different packaging. Similar yes, the same, no.

900F
 
To answer your question, your load should be in the neighborhood of 1350fps from a 7.5" barrel. Little more/less depending on barrel length.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'll figure these will be closer to the velocity in the Speer #9 at 1300-1400fps. The Speer book also has H110 data. Side by side they look like this:

Min
WW296 25.2gr 1389fps
H110 25.0gr 1382fps

Max
WW296 27.2gr 1493fps
H110 27.0gr 1490fps
 
Every barrel is different. Start low, and work up. I look at the numbers in the loading books as anectdotal evidence, not as genuine statistics.

For instance, there's no way I'd go over the start load in a Remington or Savage factory chamber 6PPC (assuming such a critter would exist). In one of my custom BR rifles, with custom actions, Shilen or Hart match barrels, and _perfect_ chambers, I start probably a grain over the "max" load you'd find in the manuals.
 
I emailed Hodgon today to ask about the H-110 and WW296 thing.

Are H-110 and Winchester 296 the same stuff? This question has been bandied around for years. I though maybe you could put it to rest. An addition to your FAQ with this topic would be helpful.

Thanks!
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Just got the 4 word reply from their Customer Satisfaction Manager.

They are the same
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