manufacturing a howdah... sort of

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il_10

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Here's an interesting one for you. I'd love to have a howdah pistol, but I'm not really interested in paying 600+ for what really amounts to a range toy. I'd love to build one, but black powder doubles tend to be either too ancient for me to want to comfortably fire, too collectible for me to comfortably want to cut down, or too expensive (like the pedersolis) to justify not going straight to the cabellas howdah.
Now, I've seen the cobray FMJ double barrel black powder derringers, that run off a 209 primer. I've entertained picking one of these up and cutting the rifling out, probably only in one barrel, but that still leaves me with basically a black powder .410... and that just ain't gonna cut it for me.
But the cobray got me thinking. It's basically a small double barrel shotgun, it just has a plug in the back of the barrel to hold a 209 primer instead of a chamber for a shell. I'm well aware I can't cut down a shell-firing double without the NFA stamp, but that's another $200, a lot of papertrail, and a range toy I won't get to have until next summer.
So would anyone have any idea as to the legality, safety, or any insight whatever as to using the cobray as a design concept and permanently plugging a standard production double or single barrel shotgun with some kind of 209 primer-holding plug. What I'm thinking is that it would turn a modern cartridge shotgun into a black powder gun, rendering it a "not a firearm," allowing me to cut it down to howdah size.

But that can't be right... so can anyone tell me why it's wrong?:confused:
 
Just go ahead and buy you one from Cabela's. In the times that we going into here it may come in handy for you, or at the very least you shouldn't have any trouble getting your money back for it and might just realize a small profit. (even if the 'profit' amounts to powder, balls, caps, maybe some bacon and a sack of beans. perhaps some gasoline or propane to help you out a bit)....
 
My sister own's and keep's a Howdah for her home defense. (plus she has two (2) grandchildren living there with her, both pretty young).. I know she uses #2 shot. It's for home defense and close in there in the house but that thing has killed a few rabbits, one turkey, about 3 or 4 rattlesnakes, and one deer. (getting into her garden. she depend's on that garden)....
 
The barrels are not the firearm, but then again the barrels from a smokeless scattergun are not at all the same thing as the barrels for a BP howdah. Why not take two BP pistol barrels from Track or some other parts source? Then you can regulate them yourself and rib them together.
 
il_10 said:
So would anyone have any idea as to the legality, safety, or any insight whatever as to using the cobray as a design concept and permanently plugging a standard production double or single barrel shotgun with some kind of 209 primer-holding plug. What I'm thinking is that it would turn a modern cartridge shotgun into a black powder gun, rendering it a "not a firearm," allowing me to cut it down to howdah size.
But that can't be right... so can anyone tell me why it's wrong?

A muzzle loader made by converting a firearm receiver is not legally considered to be an antique firearm.

The quote below was posted by our moderator 4v50 Gary in the following thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=87740&highlight=converted+receiver

See also Title 18 USC, Sec. 921 (a)(1)(16) "The term 'antique firearm' means -

(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm describe in subparagraph (A) if such replica -

(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammuntion, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammuntion which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term 'antique firearm' shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammuntion by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock,
or any combination thereof.
 
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Bingo. Thanks articap, that was just what I was looking for. I guess cabelas it is.
 
Basically, the converters are just 'parts' of firearms. When you slide your converter into your BP pistol, it becomes a firearm. When you put the BP cyl. back in, it's no longer a firearm.
 
The pistol doesn't need to be an antique firearm for those purposes. It can be either a firearm or not a firearm and still be legal, so the conversions are okay. My shotgun, on the other hand, would by definition have to be an antique firearm to bypass the NFA for a black powder howdah (which is really just a SBS). Since by definition an antique firearm cannot be one converted from a firearm that used shells at one point, even converted to black it would require a tax stamp. At least that's my understanding at this point.
 
Where do you get those Cobray black powder derringers? I see they have a version chambered in 45LC/.410 with vertical barrels. If there's a black powder version of the same, I would definitely be interested. Horizontal, not so much. Please let me know.
 
Here are some links to some live auctions, batjka. They only do the BP versions in side-by-side or single barrels, as far as I've ever seen (and you want to search for "FMJ", a different ideation of the Cobray company.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176789049
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176896173
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http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=178228256
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Hope this helps you find what you're looking for - I have no financial interest in the auctions.
 
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