Marlin 1895 45-70 Maximum Loads

[mkl]

This is more of a curiosity question than anything. I doubt my old shoulder would survive maximum 45-70 loads.

The Speer #12 and Lyman #48 reloading manuals place the Marlin 1985 into the "lever action" category with several other lever actions (such as the Winchester 1886) and hold the pressure to below 28,000 c.u.p.

The Hornady #4 manual says that the Marlin 1895 is the same action as the 444 Marlin which has a maximum SAAMI pressure of 40,000 c.u.p. (Speer says the SAAMI pressure for the 444 Marlin is 44,000 c.u.p.).

Hornady manual lists the Marlin 1895 only (no other lever actions mentioned) and holds loads to a maximum of 40,000 c.u.p.

Lyman manual #48 for the Ruger #1 and Ruger #3 in 45-70 holds pressures to 40,000 c.u.p. or less.

Question: Is there any reason I can't use the Lyman data for the Ruger #1 & #3 as a maximum load for my Marlin 1895?

I would work up using pressure signs, head expansion, etc. to get to the maximum; been doing this a long time so I know the pressure drills... (Actually, I'd use a chronograph so as never to exceed the published velocities).

Comments appreciated.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes.

The single-shot actions completely enclose the brass. They also lock directly at the casehead so there is very little or no case stretch.

By design, the Marlin locks at the rear of the bolt, with resulting action springiness & case stretching.

They also leave a little bit more unsupported case web at the extractor cut then the single shots.

The other thing is, the weak link in a Marlin & 86 Winchester is really the barrel shank threads/ front receiver ring.

The tapered 45-70 chamber takes a much bigger bite out of the barrel wall thickness then the straight & smaller diameter .444 Marlin chamber.

I'd stick with lever-gun loads if it was me.

rcmodel

 

[Asherdan]

From my own research and usage I've come to the opinion that a 40k cup ceiling for the 1895 design is a safe and functional pressure limit. Hodgdons, Hornady and Barnes, for example, fall in that same range.

However...

...the weak link in a Marlin & 86 Winchester is really the barrel shank threads/ front receiver ring.

The tapered 45-70 chamber takes a much bigger bite out of the barrel wall thickness then the straight & smaller diameter .444 Marlin chamber.

I agree with this in particular and think this is why the pictures I've seen of a few handloaded oops have shown them being blown out right through that barrel thread area of the receiver.

My working loads all run ~25-30k cup. Gives me plenty of horsepower and increases my DA margin. I leave the 40k stuff on the shelf for armor plated elk or the occasional Sasquatch chase.

 

[MCMXI]

My working loads all run ~25-30k cup.

I'm working with Lyman's 49th Edition and VihtaVuori's reloading guide for the .45-70 where pressure for a 405 grain bullet and N130 powder is kept under 30,000 psi and that's enough for me. I can only imagine how the recoil would be at 40,000 psi particularly with the Guide Gun!

 

[Ranger J]

I started out loading my hunting loads at the 2nd or Marlin level and with 300 gr HP bullets leaving enormous exit wounds and abusing my shoulder as well as occasionally the bridge of my nose. This year I loaded down to trapdoor level and not only got complete passage through the largest buck I have ever shot in MO but have given my shoulder a break. Yes, if I were going after elk or moose or such I would probably go back to the 2nd level loadings with probably a 405 SP bullet but if I am shooting at deer or paper why do I need more than trapdoor level. Sure I like to read about the old 45/70 being able to shoot end to end through a rhino but I have not seen one in my neighborhood in quite a while. Marlin says not to shoot loads higher than 2nd level in the gun although I continue to read about people who are shooting 3rd or 'ruger' level loads in them. Ouch, it hurts just thinking about what that would do to my shoulder much less what those would do to the gun. My favorite paper load is a 300 gr hard cast bullet over a load of trail boss. It is a lot of fun and I could shoot all day without discomfort and it shoots great.

RJ

 

[moooose102]

i have loaded my marlin up to the max on the hodgdon web site. it gets pretty hot on some of the loads. in fact, i believe the max loading for the 300 grain bullets to be to high. the pressure signs come out ok, but i am telling you, they are H O T ! plus, they shoot about 2&1/2" higher than any other load i shoot. it feels wrong, just dont do it. handloader magazine has some pretty good loads as well. if you want that data, pm me, i think i can send it in an e-mail.

 

[moooose102]

p.s. i am shooting this stuff out of a guide gun, with a muzzle brake, and a limb saver. you dont want to shoot this from a straight guide gun! IT WILL HURT!

 

[calaverasslim]

405 Cast bullet and Unique powder is fine for me in the level 1 range. Gonna try Win. 231 one of these days. Works great on White Tail and hogs and doesn't bust my shoulder.

Why punish yourself?