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Maryland Finally Goes Shall Issue

Discussion in 'Legal' started by P.O.2010, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. Zeeemu

    Zeeemu Member

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    I wonder, will Maryland CC holder names and addresses be listed in a public database or be available for newspapers to publish?
     
  2. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    Currently, the database can't be dumped. Certain elements in the database are publicly available. Maybe the GA will close it to public access.
     
  3. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    The CA4 told Gura-SAF to have their reply brief into the court by 7-31. This is going to get a quick ruling IMO.
     
  4. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Do you really think he is going to put his job and pension on the lie if the politicians say no?

    He can SAY whatever he wants, he is NOT the final authority.

    Remember how democratic republics work?
     
  5. ilbob

    ilbob Member

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    Like with all employees keeping one's job is a big deal and one will normally not do things that will directly put that job at risk.

    The antis know the gig is up, or at least think there is a good chance that it is up. They are just playing out their hand.

    They will throw up whatever road blocks they can but they will not directly defy the federal courts. They might just eliminate the LTC provision entirely, and then you start over.
     
  6. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    This individual has a job and his job is to follow the law and the law doesn't give him leeway in denying permits just because some Assemblymen don't like it.

    FWIW, there are individuals in the MSP licensing department who have taken clear stands in favor of gun rights and carry rights, in opposition to political pressures from above. There is a lot more going on here than a simplistic, cynical view will encompass. If you're interested in learning about who's done what and for which side, I'd be happy to put you in touch with some people who have that information, but if you're content to disparage without knowledge, by all means proceed! :)

    Yes. That's what we've been pointing out. This is going through the proper channels of review. It is not in the hands of the MSP, it is no longer in the hands of the MD Assembly. The last step came out very positive for our side. The next step looks very promising as well. If it happens to falter at this next step (CA4), the steps after that look even better!

    I'm really not sure what the purpose of a bunch of "when pigs fly" talk serves. I guess the glass is always half empty from some folks' points of view. :)
     
  7. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Unless the law sets both time limits AND a penalty for not following the time limits (and you can find a state attorney to pursue violations of the time limit) there is nothing forcing any bureaucrat to operate in an expeditious manner.
     
  8. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    As of July 24th, MSP was already sitting on 365 completed permits waiting to go out as soon as the stay is lifted. (Don't know how many more they've completed in the last 5 days.) So, in this case they're way out in front of the law and are actually slowed down by it.

    Is that because they want to stall and refuse to process to appease their political masters?

    Have you read the linked thread yet?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  9. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    MSP follows the law, not the whims of politicians or the organization's own internalopinions. They've been more than fair in their dealings so far. They even returned uncashed checks and apps to folks who applied after the District Court stay. They could legally have cashed every check but they took the HIGH ROAD.

    We need to do the same. I applied pre stay so I'm patiently waiting for my permit too. It's a process.
     
  10. tek610

    tek610 Member

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    Great news! When I lived in VA where I was a CCW holder, I'd have to leave it at home when I worked in MD. I owned a studio in PG County, perhaps where CCW is needed most.

    Congrats, MD. It may be slow to implement and for processing to become routine, but it's a GIANT step in the right direction.

    It'll probably be another two decades before DC gets it right. If ever.
     
  11. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    I read it beofre the first time you asked.

    There appears to be NO law that compels the police to have a time limit.

    As a bureaucrat they can take whatever time they feel necessary.

    Not being the highest bureaucrat in the pecking order, they can be pressured by their bosses.

    We used to have a 5 day period for the police to check on handgun transfers in Fairfax County VA.
    The police routinely dragged their feet, sometimes to double that.

    The Commonwealths Attorney in Fairfax County (Horan IIRC) refused to take ANY action to make the police comply with the law, and repeatedly threatened any FFL who transferred a handgun without the postcard approval returned from the police with criminal prosecution.

    Guess what happened?

    NOTHING.

    The police took their own time, and if anyone asked it was a "manpower limit" problem.

    It would appear you take politicians (and the head of the state police is a politician) at their word.

    Let us know when someone has a permit in their hand.

    It was not until preemption was passed at the state level removing the local power (Virginia is a Dillon rule state) that the waiting periods died.

    The same preemption is what allows Virginia 'shall issue' for concealed handgun permits to function in a number of counties and cities.
    Arlington County sends a 'wish list' to the state legislature every years wanting the CHP power back.

    They are one of the counties that refused to issue ANY permits.
     
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    That will be a pleasure!

    (Though I know a few already, but they don't count as they were issued under the G&S standard.)
     
  13. MAKster

    MAKster Member

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    Arlington County issues permits. They are required to use the exact same criteria as every other county in the state, so they could not reject permits even if they wanted to. They have 45 days max to process your application.
     
  14. Norton

    Norton Member

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    Maryland already has preemption. So goes the state, so goes every locality. In fact, once this comes down we'll in many ways be better than WV where they have grandfathered prohibited areas.

    Since Maryland has never had local laws, thanks to preemption, localities will not be able to enact prohibitions after Woollard.
     
  15. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Only now that we have preemption and a shall issue law.


    Before that they would NOT issue permits .

    NONE.

    Lived around here very long?

    Pay any attention to local politics?

    I lived in Arlington for 30 years.

    Arlington initially tried to charge $25 for the police, $25 fot the sherrif, and $25 for the Commonwealths Attorney to process permits after shall issue wnet into affect.

    The State AG came down hard on them.

    ONE fee.

    The judges in Arlington did NOT want to even sign the permits, thus the change that allows Clerks of the Court to sign them.

    They often run right up to the 45 day limit for new permits and renewals.

    It is just to expensive to take any action against them since the CA in the county is not about to lift a finger (since they are the office sitting on everything til the last minute).
     
  16. rajb123

    rajb123 member

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    in my state, the police routinely loose all applications..... a simple fact. after resubmitting a new application, 6 months will pass and you will get a rejection letter....

    ....there will be a number of roadblocks and additional hurdles and I will not hold my breath.... this is going to be a long haul process and it has not even close now.....

    the anti's are very strong and well funded... they do not give up easily
     
  17. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

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    Why am I NOT surprised?
     
  18. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

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    I agree. The 4th Circuit court has to be convinced that MD has a compelling reason to resist this argument.

    As the article says:
    And that's going to play REAL well against the backdrop of every other state in the district. What does the Court look to for its most direct evidence for such a clam? The track records of VA, WV, NC, and SC. MD will essentially have to sustain a claim that it is somehow substantively unique from its neighbors and that reinstating the right of the individual to LAWFULLY carry arms is going to produce significant harms to society that none of the other states in the district have seen the slightest hint of.

    While nothing is certain, it does seem that MD will be arguing its case on very hostile turf and they've already shown that given what, 270 days worth of stays already? -- they can't produce a shred of credible evidence to support those claims.

    I'm thinking it will be quite entertaining to watch this unfold. :)
     
  20. 627PCFan

    627PCFan Member

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    This for the win
     
  21. mgkdrgn

    mgkdrgn Member

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    I ain't heard no "fat lady" yet! MD will fight this down to the last taxapyer dollar and beyond.
     
  22. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Maryland's strict gun laws have eliminated all violent crime in places like Baltimore.

    On a more serious note:

    If a majority of the Court holds that the Second Amendment applies outside the home, what do the Liberal Justices do when faced with the question of whether it is Constitutional to require an individual to show a justifiable need to exercise a Constitutional right?
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  23. bushmaster1313

    bushmaster1313 Member

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    Official to private individual seeking to exercise Constitutional right:

    "Please explain to me why you have a justifiable need a to:"

    Consult with a lawyer
    Read THAT book
    Say THAT
    Assemble with THEM
    Practice THAT religion
    Etc.
     
  24. swinokur

    swinokur Member

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    4CA issues another stay.

    No surprise to many folks.
     

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  25. WVleo

    WVleo Member

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    And the Pigs wings just got clipped ! How can these liberal idiots maintain power in these States is beyond Me ? .....WVleo
     
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