Massachusetts People: Easier LTC towns?

[jamz]

Is there anyone here from Massachusetts that knows some different towns in which it might be easier to get an unrestricted license to carry? I live in Sudbury, which I have heard it difficult, and I was turned down instantly. They would restrict it for "target and Sport" only.

My brother, who has a business in Clinton, was told that the chief there would take care of him, and that they don't bother with restrictions.

I might be able to get this through one of the towns in which I work, and these would be Woburn, Chelsea, Springfield, Haverhill, and Newton.

Does anyone know how tought these towns are to get an unrestricted LTC?

Thanks much,

-James

 

[atk]

jamz,

While other towns may be easier, my understanding of MA law is that you have to apply to your local licensing authority. Again, it is my understanding that "local" is in reference to where you live, not where you travel through, nor where you work.

Good luck.

 

[FPrice]

jamz...

atk is correct. You HAVE to apply in the city/town where you reside. Are you capable of moving? You might want to contact the guys at Four Seasons in Woburn and see if they have any info on other localities.

Good luck.

 

[jamz]

Well, I'm not really capable of moving. The schools are too good here. Unles we get forced out by high taxes (a real possibility) we are here to stay.

My brother in the above post also lives in the same town as I do, yet he applied in the town that his business is in. I've heard of this before as well, I just can't remember where.

 

[lapidator]

http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/massachusetts

They used to have a section under MA where people posted their stories about the local permitting process. I don't see it now... but it may be there somewhere.

My first hand knowledge is the following:
Good record -- Auburn, Sandwich, Bourne, Mashpee, Southbridge
Bad record -- Carver, Falmouth, Boston

You HAVE to apply in the city/town where you reside.

This is not true. If you move, you HAVE to notify your town, the town where your permit was issued, and the town you plan to move to -- when and to where you move. But there is no requirement that you can only be issued a permit from the town in which you live. For example, you live in a condo in Boston, and own a package store in Natick. The Natick police MAY issue you a permit, though the Boston PD WILL NOT. (NOTE: I understand that Natick does issue permits to "qualified" people -- my understanding is that Boston will issue permits to LEO's only.)

Residents:
Obtain an application at the police department in the city or town where you reside or have a place of business. The issuing authority is the chief of police, the commissioner, or a person to whom he or she delegates the responsibility.

I have tried to talk to GOAL about finding out which towns have a gun-friendly process, however they have ignored my questions regarding this every time. Cowards.

Good luck with your permit.

Lapidator

 

[Jonesy9]

not sure that is true, if he is a business owner or part owner, he may apply in the town that the business is located. If your brother is a business owner, are you listed as a company officer? could you be??? My experience shows that the cops are easier on the business owners than the reg joes but that could vary by police chief.


The further you get outside of 495 the easier it is. I've heard of some chiefs that don't require a letter and do same day turnaround.

I'm near you Jamz and it's thought that it's harder to get the all lawful in the western burbs cause of libs but it's the cops that don't want the guns out there. If you know any local cops or fireman, it can be a big help in getting it through the chief. I have a couple friends on the Natick force, conservative republican guys, but they are not fond of citizens having weapons, it's like it's a personal safety issue for them.

I don't know anyone who has been turned down when they wrote a good letter though, there's a lawyer linked to the GOAL site that can help you push it through. Leave out the stuff about your second amendment rights, the police chiefs don't give a crap.

Also, how old are you? If you're a young guy the cops will be even more leery of you than a home or business owner with a few kids.


good luck.

 

[jamz]

Oddly, our police chief is retiring tomorrow, and will officially be replaced by a new guy. maybe he will be more pro-RKBA.
Oh, and I am 38, with my second home, with a wife two small kids. I'm not quite young anymore.


Here's the letter I wrote. I wasn't required to do this, but I felt that it stated the case better:

Dear Chief Lembo, (or Chief Fadgen, depending on when you get this)


I am writing you this letter in order to clarify my reasons for requesting a Class A license to carry firearms.

In the past, I have not felt the need to carry a weapon of any sort, with the possible exception of a short time that I lived in Miami FL. (I had some mace then.) Sudbury is a very quiet town, fortunately, and I am thankful for that, and I expect it to continue to be a quiet town, with a very low probability of encountering any threats to my person.

I work, however, in an environment that is changing. I am the IT manager of the MRI Centers of New England, and we have 8 sites currently, all over Massachusetts and Rhode Island. My job is forcing me, more and more, to start transferring large amounts of valuable merchandise, (laptops, computers, flat screen monitors, and medical equipment) late at night to do my work, when the centers aren’t so busy. Specifically, I have had instances when I haven’t felt safe loading things into my car from the site, or vice versa. I have had, on occasion, to stop what I was doing, and go inside until I felt that I was no longer getting unwanted attention from people. It is times like this that I have a reason to fear injury to my person or property.

We have centers in Chelsea, MA (100 Everett Ave) and Springfield MA (3500 Main St). These two places are not in the best of neighborhoods, and I don’t see my job function changing anytime soon.

I don’t intend to carry a weapon on a regular basis, around town, or on the weekends. I would carry during those times at work when I felt that the risk, and my exposure, is higher than it normally is. I also don’t intend to get rusty or unfamiliar with the weapon I would carry- Our Woburn center (where my office is) is about 200 yards from the Massachusetts Rifle Association, so I can practice daily, almost, on my lunch break. I have been shooting rifles and handguns with my father for the better part of twenty years now, on and off. I am familiar and comfortable with firearms, but I have never lost the respect I have for the damage they can cause when inattentive or careless with them.

I fully understand the magnitude of responsibility you bear when you carry a weapon. Not only do you expose yourself to civil and criminal suits should you need to use it, but your judgment must be absolutely solid, your situational awareness must be very alert, and your ability to verbally defuse a potential situation becomes that much more important.

I hope to God that I never have to use a weapon to defend myself, but afraid of that as I am, I am even more afraid of leaving my wife, 4 year old son, and 1 year old daughter without a Dad.

You probably get many requests for this, and I understand a Police Chief’s hesitation in granting such a license to a person that they don’t know. I can assure you, however, that I will do everything in my power to be one of those people that you simply never hear about until three and a half years have gone by, and it’s time to renew again.

Thanks for considering,


James XXX

 

[Jonesy9]

I'd cut it down to :


"I am the IT manager of the MRI Centers of New England, and we have 8 sites currently, all over Massachusetts and Rhode Island. My job is forcing me, more and more, to start transferring large amounts of valuable merchandise, (laptops, computers, flat screen monitors, and medical equipment) late at night to do my work, when the centers aren’t so busy. Specifically, I have had instances when I haven’t felt safe loading things into my car from the site, or vice versa. I have had, on occasion, to stop what I was doing, and go inside until I felt that I was no longer getting unwanted attention from people. It is times like this that I have a reason to fear injury to my person or property.

We have centers in Chelsea, MA (100 Everett Ave) and Springfield MA (3500 Main St). These two places are not in the best of neighborhoods, and I don’t see my job function changing anytime soon."


and expand on how much danger you're in. Is the new chief from within the force or coming from a diff town?


Or get your brother to list you as an officer of his corp and get it from the CPD, I still think this option will be easiest.

 

[lapidator]

Be somewhat cautious of using job related reasons in order to qualify for your LTC. What will you do if they come back with, "ok -- looks good, just get a copy of this letter on company letterhead and signed by your boss and you're good to go." If you know your boss will say yes, go for it. If you're not sure... find out. Also, what if the police want to know what your employer's firearm policy is -- and suppose it is an anti-gun policy -- then what do you do?

Also, remember that protection of personal property (or business property) is -NOT- a reason for the use of lethal force, and thus may not be viewed as a reason for issuance of an LTC. Not that i would take it out, simply I would focus more on stuff like, "required to travel long distances -- far from home -- at night."

Take a *good* handgun course before you apply and include a copy of the certificate with your letter. I recommend the Sig Arms Academy "Basic Handgun" course. It is expensive, but well worth the investment -- Sig has training relationships with the MA State Police and many town police agencies and this may work in your favor. When my girlfriend applied for her permit, they gave her a 2 month run-a-round until she submitted the SigArms certificate -- then they issued the permit that day.

Also, as soon as you do get your MA LTC, get a NH one ($25 for 4 years -- shall issue!) It is good in 15 other states (MA is only honored in 10 other states).

Finally, RI does not honor MA or NH LTCs, and will not issue you a permit. Drop it from your letter.

Lapidator

 

[FPrice]

I stand corrected about the issue on where to apply, the GOAL website did provide the following (as lapidator said):

"Where do I get this license (LTC)?

You apply at the police department in the city or town where you live or have a place of business. The issuing authority is the chief of police, the commissioner, or a person to whom he or she delegates the responsibility."

So, if you do have a business in another town I guess you can apply there. I am curious though if that COP would question why you are applying there and not your city/town of residence.

 

[gripper]

LTC-ch180,Ma.

I was licensed to carry in Ma.(and NH)for more than 10 yrs. After the paswsage of Ch180,which gave the Chiefs tyhe power to "interpret" the law as "issuing authority",when I went to renew,I found myself to be declared an"unsuitable person",for a non-violent,no damage OUI (misdemeanor),which was not a disqualifier under the law at ther time of thecase disposition.Largely without any real support from GOAL or the NRA,i fought my own case up from a judicial review petition(1999) to petitions for certiori(2001) and Ma. court of Appeals),on the grounds that the retroactivity violates the US codes,(10 US 87,Fletcher v. Peck1810), by changing my status after the fact and subjectively.
Unfortunately, the Judges basicalyy argued the chief and the commonwealth's case for them after the hearings, and refused to cinsider anything but whether or not the Chief's denial was legal under the CURRENT legislative scheme. And since I fought them,I doubt any change of address withinb the Commonwealth would help me any. I was set to relocate last year,but some other complications kept me stuck in place . Hopefully I can change this situation, either by moving,or if GOAL actually works to pressure the House to pass H3682 & S2061.

 

[Flying Ashtray]

I have a backup plan in place;

Get my letter together.

My NRA and Mass State Police firearms instructor certificates and any letters of references I can accrue and that will outline why i wanna upgrade from B to A.

If this succeeds, all good.

If this fails, Move in with my friend from another town for the necessary time to get it in THAT town, then move back.

 

[FPrice]

gripper...

"Hopefully I can change this situation, either by moving,or if GOAL actually works to pressure the House to pass H3682 & S2061."

While I sympathize with you and your predicament, I have to say that from what I have seen, GOAL does work to change the laws, but there is only so much they can do. Basically, their job is to marshall the forces of us, the voters, to pressure our legislators to make the changes. Unless WE make our desires known, the Commonwealth will continue to stick it to us.

 

[Kingson]

I live in West Springfield MA and it was very easy to get a Class A lic. I took the pistol course, passed and when to the police station and put down Class A ALP and they said OK and got my lic. 3 weeks later. They didn't ask why I wanted. So there are some good towns out there.

 

[lapidator]

Hopefully I can change this situation, either by moving,or if GOAL actually works to pressure the House to pass H3682 & S2061.

Don't hold your breath. The last time I saw a statistic on the matter, the number of LTCs in Massachusetts was 55,000. Sure, you may live in a town that is especially pro-gun, and you might have a pro-gun State Rep. or State Senator (like I do), but in aggregate when the House or Senate tries to determin the relative risk of voting pro-gun they certainly don't fear only 55,000 licensees who probably don't vote anyway.

Not to say we should stop fighting -- certainly not! I merely state the obvious. The deck is stacked against us. BTW -- i'm a GOAL life member, so i feel i've put my money where my mouth is. I think that for the most part that GOAL does a good job, the best they can considering the situation.

Further -- your experiance with the courts is about par for the course. I have read numberous stories of folks that went before the courts to fight an unreasonable chief, or to reclaim guns that were seized illegally and unnecessarily and most of the time the result is simmillar -- the court ignores the arguments and sides with the cops.

Worse is the Supreme Judicial Court that found a right of gays to marry where no right exists in the letter or spirit of the law, and yet they have never, atleast to my knowledge, have sided with a gun owner, even in the most obviouse case.

The bottom line is this: those of you whom have already lost your LTCs are not getting them back -- and those of us who still have them are going to loose them in the not to distant future. GOAL notwithstanding.

The only long term answer is to retreat to a pro-gun state and increase the number of pro-gun voters there. Atleast until the next revolution.

I found myself to be declared an"unsuitable person",for a non-violent,no damage OUI (misdemeanor),which was not a disqualifier under the law at ther time of thecase disposition

The lesson here for the rest of us is... don't blow, don't perform any road-side acrobatics, just go to the station and fight it in the courts.

Lapidator

 

[jamz]

Time to conclude this thread.

There is a new police chief in town, and he seems to be slightly more willing to issue LTCs. After all the paperwork came back from the state (Took about 4 weeks), I dropped by to pick it up. I was taken to his office. He read my letter and re-asked me why I wanted a permit to carry. I re-explained basically that it would be nice to have the option, even though I didn't intend to carry around my home town. (yet ) He told me it was a very big responsibility, to which I replied in kind. Then he just told me that the old chief didn't give these out at all, but he was inclined to give it to me.

Long story short, I have a license that is not exactly "All Lawful Purposes", but rather for "Protection of person and property". I can't see what other lawful purposes there would be, unless I am now restricted from ever taking it to the range.

I guess I should let GOAL.org know that there is a new Chief in town, and his views are a lot more reasonable then the old chief.

-James

 

[FPrice]

jamz....

" Long story short, I have a license that is not exactly "All Lawful Purposes", but rather for "Protection of person and property". I can't see what other lawful purposes there would be, unless I am now restricted from ever taking it to the range. "

Theoretically you "could" be in violation of the purpose for issue if you went to the range or went hunting. I highly doubt that any reasonable LEO would do that, but the ALP reason covers anything legal you would want to or could do.

 

[Jonesy9]

I've never heard of that "protection of personal and property", I'd contact the lawyers at GOAL and see if this means you're restricted to carrying while at work since that was the nature of your letter.

I've never heard of anyone being "interviewed" like that but I can understand a new Chief doing it. Hopefully he'll tire of it and just have his underlings rubber stamp the forms like most Chiefs

 

[Eskimo Jim]

Believe it or not, Needham was rather painless to get a LTC Class A about 5 years ago. I don't know about now.

I found it ironic that Needham wasn't that difficult and it was Cheryl Jacques' (rhymes with fakes) home town. See the other thread about her. She's a rabid anti.

The only other towns that I've heard were less painful than others is west of Springfield. I heard that the northern part of the state, near Lowell started requiring a doctor's note in additon to the application, safety course etc.

Good luck.

-Jim

 

[jamz]

Well, I've thought about it, and I think what is says is that basically I am legally bound to carry concealed 24/7. To do otherwise would be a violation of issuance.

I gotta get something lighter than this 1911!


-James
(Checking with GOAL this week)