"Mauser Parabellum" & other "new" Lugers

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tex_n_cal

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One shop has a Mauser Parabellum, which was a Luger copy made in the 1970's or so. I recalled seeing them in Shooter's Biblewhen I was a kid.

6" barrel, .30 Luger caliber, $950 new in box. Now, I know this thing has no historical value, but I've always thought this model would be fun to shoot for general woods bumming, small game, etc, given their reputation for accuracy.

Any opinions on quality? It seems this one would be a better shooter than a wartime relic, regardless of condition.

I think Mitchell Arms also made a full size, stainless Luger, haven't heard much about them.

Opinions? Experience?

Thanks!:)
 
I think $950 is way too high for that Parabellum, you se them on the auction site s all the time for a lot less.

The Mauser versions have a certain collector cachet and are better off unfired IMHO..the Mitchells are better shooters. A wat ime one is just fine for shooting.

This coming from a guy who just leaves a 1916 Erfurt in his truck

WildlugerloverAlaska
 
A WW-I Luger in pristine condition can go for a thousand at a gun show. The .30 is a better choice than the 9X19. You can load the cartridge and use Speer plinker bullets for maximum effect.
A .30 caliber 1920 commercial Luger in shooting condition would be a better choice than a current or 1970's commercial, since parts are available easily for the original model and the pistol is known to function reliably, if in good condition.
I personally like the caliber. I had SSK make me an 8" barrel in .30 Luger, for my Contender pistol and I used TSOB rings from SSK to mount an M8 2X Leupold thereon. An unbeatable combination, but the second shot would be slow. Secret is: shoot accurately so a second shot isn't needed in quick time. The plinker bullet does a number on varmints of reasonable size.
 
Since Lugers were produced at the Mauser factory before WWII, is the 1970's Mauser a different gun, or just the original back in production?
 
The repro Lugers made in the 1970's were a mixture of both forged and cast parts. Only some of the small parts like the side plate and I think the safety and trigger were cast. Both original Lugers and the 1970's reproduction guns can be very, very finicky. I know a lot of people who bought both types and got rid of them in frustration because they would not work reliably with most factory ammo.

One usually must handload to get either to work with a fair amount of reliablity and this is the ability to shoot one box with no jams. Anything beyond this is more luck than anything else.

Trigger pulls on military lugers can be very bad and few gunsmiths today will attempt a trigger job on them although it can be done. My own personal 1917 DWM had a trigger job done on it back in the 1930's and it breaks like glass so it can be done if one can take it to someone who knows what he is doing. There was an article in Shooting Times magazine years and years ago back I think in the 1970's that tells how to do your own trigger job on one of these pistols.

Although the .30 luger is a very accurate caliber it is a real headache to reload for because of its bottleneck shape. Remember there are no carbide dies for this caliber that I am aware of and the short neck limits you to the styles of bullets both jacketed and cast that you can use in this caliber. Bullet set back in reloads can be a real problem in this caliber.

Loaded ammo and empty cases have always been scarce and expensive in this caliber. I hear that Winchester only makes a
limited run of this caliber only every couple of years.

Sights on Lugers also should be modified if the gun is a mismatched piece and not a collectors item. The original military sights were so small as to be of little use in target shooting or hunting. I have seen adjustable sights put on Lugers and if it is done by a first class gunsmith it is a worthwhile addition in regards to the utility of the piece.

In short you are probably way better off with the 9mm and way better off with an original Luger because they can often be bought for the same price as the 1970's repro or the Later Stainless commercial lugers which by the way were made largely of castings not forgings. The stainless guns are very difficult to sell and often the owner takes a real bath when he tries to recoupe what he may have paid for it because of all the originals still out there for sale at prices often way less than what he paid for his stainless commercial made gun.

If you are interested in making your 9mm Luger work I suggest you read a back issue of the "American Rifleman Magazine" I believe it was called "Making your Luger Shoot" and I am almost certain it was in the year of 1981 that it was published.

Overall length in the 9mm is critical. Seating the bullet too far in will result in jams as well as a magazine with weak springs or a magazine with a worn locking notch. Limp wrist shooting will also cause a Luger to Jam. The right buring rate of powder must also be used. Forget the myth that only hot load will make a Luger shoot reliably. All you will do is end up shortening the life of the gun and possibly cracking the bolt or frame of the weapon.

I use 4.5 grains of Unique powder behind an 125 grain bullet. I have found in my own gun that the heavier 125 grain as opposed to the 115 grain bullet seems to work more reliably in mine. I also seat the bullet way out and if I remember correctly I seated it out to an over all length of 1.180 inches which is so long that it will not fit in other weapons of 9mm caliber. This extreme length will result in your only being able to get 7 rounds in the magazine as opposed to the 8 rounds it was designed for but it does help finicky Lugers feed much better.

I have found much to my suprise that parts gun Lugers are more often more reliable than matching numbered guns because often the parts guns have a looser fit. The matching numbered guns are often so tightly fitted that any excess oil or burnt powder soon jams them up.

If you have a Luger with a reworked trigger and match type sights they can be one of the most accurate 9mm handguns that you have ever or will ever fire. There workmanship was top-notch and their strength is largely unmatched even among todays modern pistols. They were made of the finest quality materiels and workmanship which resulted in match grade accuracy, something you will not find in most of todays production line handguns and in some cases even custom guns.
 
Yep, it probably is too high, but I also expect I can haggle it down, too.:D

Yes, I handload, and understand the issues with bottleneck cases in autoloaders - I have a .400 Corbon barrel in a 1911, I know well about bullet setback and other unpleasant things as such.

Hmmm...more thought required...
 
If you use Speer plinker bullets and you taper crimp, setback is not an issue with the .30 Luger round. I made some cases from 9X21 CP brass and obtained some regular 7,65 Luger cases, and that holds true for all of them.
The Luger pistol is misunderstood by most American shooters. The sight picture is not the same as with a patridge sight. You have to bring the tip of the front blade all the way down into the bottom of the V notch (called "Taking a Fine Sight") to properly align front with rear blades. I've been doing trigger jobs on Lugers for over 50 years with no complaints so far.
If your gunsmith installs the proper recoil spring, you can shoot some heavy duty loads without too many problems. If you overload, you can blow out the extractor and will have to try to find a new breechblock.
The Luger does not begin to unlock until chamber pressure has dropped to absolute zero (Remove the extractor and note that the case remains in the chamber, but can be removed with a flick of your fingernail), so it will digest fairly stout 9X19 loads. On my personal Mauser made WW-II pistol, I have replaced the barrel and bifurcated barrel extension with a setup that is chambered for 9X21, and it feeds my favorite bullets without too much effort. The secret is getting a gunsmith who understands the Luger to work it over.
The most usual pistols that are used as shooters are the 1920 commercials, since they are the least expensive and collector desirable on the market. The newer pistols do not interchange parts with the older pistols. The older guns had hand fitted and numbered parts, especially the trigger system, and it is a little bit more complicated than just dropping in a replacement piece. Many "collectors" have substituted parts to get a number match, and more money from a buyer, and these guns are particularly hard to work with, some being downright dangerous to shoot.
If you want to avoid all kinds of heartburn, find a gunsmith who is competent to work on your Luger and don't try to "fix it" yourself.
The French destroyed the Mauser factory, especially the forging press in 1945, so none of the Mauser made parts are to original specifications. And, some parts for the Mauser made guns will not interchange with DWM guns without a lot of fitting. Barrels are finicky. I've seen some that have 60 degree threads that expand the receiver ring when screwed home, jamming the pistol big time. They should be 55 degree threads and preferably have a short chambered barrel so that the gunsmith can regulate headspace.
 
Hi Tex dont let all the doom and gloom scare you..if you want a Luger for shooting I wouldnt pick up the Mauser just because its better off left unfired. Better off get yerself a shooter military one. I have owned 50 or so Lugers in my life and probably shot 20-25 of them regularly, never ever had a fialure to feed or eject on any of them. Just use a good magazine and proper ammo (Geco is good, or any Nato Ball)...the Luger I have now cuts one ragged hole with mixed ammo...

They are fun. And I hear rumours that a stainless 45 is coming out...

Heres a tip...if your trigger pull is bugging you, trim a bit off the trigger spring..works like a wonder..

Wildsimson&suhlAlaska
 
If my memory serves me right , the 1970s Lugers were made for Interarms using surplus machinery from the closed down Swiss production line and were made for people who wanted a new Luger. they may be worth $950. to a Luger collector, but that's a lot of money for a shooter in an oddball caliber. For $ 500.00 you should be able to find a 9mm Luger that's a shooter. I would recommend a WW2 Mauser made luger(P-08). As mentioned Lugers have lousy triggers and sights but have a high "coolness" factor. The P-38 is way better IMHO as a defensive weapon.
 
The first production was a Swiss pattern Luger with a straight front strap, but a few months later they resumed production of the hump front strap P-08 style pistols. They didn't use surplus machinery; it was all new production beginning with an investment casting and then machined using up-to-date machine tools.
I interviewed a young American student who worked at the Mauser factory during his summer break. There was a comprehensive writeup in Gunfacts magazine by Jan Stevenson, and it was complete with photos of the entire operation.
The young man told me that the "upstairs crew" had made up certain variations and modifications that went right into storage for release in future years...and, we are seeing some of them trickle onto the market at times.
All of Mauser's factory and original tooling was destroyed in 1945 and presumably the Swiss had some engineering input via in person or by blueprints, but Mauser claimed that all machine tools were new. And, frankly, the Swiss Luger was a lousy pistol... it felt like it was slipping out of your grasp as you fired it; the P-08 felt very secure. (Just my take on it for about two pfenigs worth.)
 
Confession time..
When the Mitchell Luger came out I was thinking I needed a Luger
and the Mitchell made of stainless steel sounded like the thing to get.. Wanted a shooter not a collectable piece and figured a new gun would be better than a old job from WW2..
Well it was the prettiest single shot semi-auto pistol there ever was..Sent it back to Texas two or three times and still was not happy.. Took it to a gun show and swapped it for a Colt 1991 and have been happy ever since..
That thing has left a bad taste in my mouth for any Mitchell product..
 
Oh, I forgot: The law requires mighty hunters from the lower 48 to be backed up by a guide, who probably finished it off with a .458 Win Mag.
You'd have to be two lamp posts short of a street corner to go forth in Grizzly bear country armed with only a Glock 17. Personally, I'd opt for a Barrett Light Fifty (if I couldn't find a 57mm recoilless rifle.) Those suckers are B_I_I_I_G and they are Mean.
 
Oh, I forgot: The law requires mighty hunters from the lower 48 to be backed up by a guide, who probably finished it off with a .458 Win Mag.You'd have to be two lamp posts short of a street corner to go forth in Grizzly bear country armed with only a Glock 17.

Actually, it was a local guy from Anchorage fishing while carrying a Glock 19.

WildthisyearIwillcarryaP99Alaska
 
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