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maximum effective range of rifles

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by natedog, Dec 27, 2002.

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  1. natedog

    natedog Member

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    i was just wondering what is the longest range that a professional sniper (SAS, SWAT, Navy SEALS, Force Recon, ect.) can hit a humam at. im talking any weapon, perfect wind, altitude, humidity, temperature, ect. what is the maximum ranges shot at at matches?
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Their matches usually won't go over a thousand, but what they do in the field is another story. I don't remember any of Carlos' famous numbers off the top of my head.
     
  3. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I think my Barrett M82a1 with its tuned trigger and Leupold mk4 10x is capable of hitting a man at 1500yds. I'm sure it would be fatal if hit vitally. I think my 35 pound .258 super condor rail gun with the 20x Unertl programmer can keep it's 140 grain .257 bullets in a k-zone at 1000yds and still be travelling 1700fps or so. My NM m14 can get you at 600-800yds if my eyes were young again as can any number of beanfield guns. I'm talking "one shot one kill" on any game with a 18"x6' k-zone less than 500lbs with proper bullet construction of course.
     
  4. redneck2

    redneck2 Member

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    The "world record"..

    was just set in Afganistan by a Canadian sniper

    little over 2,500 yards IIRC. 50 BMG sniper round. I'm sure someone here will come up with the exact details
     
  5. DMK

    DMK Member

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    Wasn't the previous record set with a scoped Ma Duece?
     
  6. MLC

    MLC Member

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    Yes it was either a Viet Cong boy on a bicycle loaded with AK 47s or a VC soldier doing his morning routine on a riverbank. The latter Hathcock admitted was pure luck since his round would have missed if the unfortuneate fellow hadn't risen from his squatting position. Check out Daniel Lilja's website regarding Long, long range big game and varmint hunting.

    Here ya go

    [​IMG]
    338/416 rigby, that looks like fun!
    Is the 338/416 about the same as the 338 RUM?
     
  7. beemerb

    beemerb Member

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    Hathcock did a 2500 yrd with a scoped ma duece.Canadian sniper did a 2750 with a McMillian.
    Bob
     
  8. trapshooter

    trapshooter Member

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    The .338/416 is (commercially) the .338 Lapua Mag. The .338 RUM is marketed to compete with the .338LM, and similar cartridges. You can fool around with powders and bullets, and it's pretty hard to tell the difference between the two, from the data I've seen (not much published on the RUM yet, but then I haven't been looking too hard).

    The .338LM is a long range hitter, and not punishing if you use a good brake. Accurate as heck. I expect the RUM would be, too.
     
  9. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    The .338 Lapua is the standard of British Royal Marine Snipers. They consider it a 1500 meter gun for human targets.
     
  10. sixgun

    sixgun Member

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    Long range shooting

    Hi all, I'm new to the forum and was just looking around. This topic caught my attention. A few weeks ago I was out at my cabin in Clinton Co Pa. I took a ride over the mountain to make a phone call home, when I spotted a group of hunters along side the road. They had big binoculars,range finders, and big rifles on shooting benches. I stopped and talked with them for a bit as I had read an article in the late 60's about mile long shots for deer. Yup thats exactly what these guys were doing. They told me the best shot of their group was 1650yrds, and another group up the road was over 1800yrds. They claim the spotter is the key to a good shot as he watches the vapor trail of the round and the tells the shooter how to adjust if he missed. I was impressed. They were using .50 cals and 338/375, hand loads, with their own shooting charts as they site in at 100 yrds. I'll have to learn more, as this really facinates me. Regards, Jim
     
  11. rick458

    rick458 Member

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    they used to say Hathcock could "see the wind" and put unreal dope on shots he was a bad man (in a good way):cool:
     
  12. okeydoke

    okeydoke member

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    since when is the torso 18" wide, and

    6 ft tall? :) The torso is but 12" wide of vital zone, and 24" tall, on a big man, frontally. 50% of the time, the man will be sideways, and skinny little Asians are a mere 8" wide. Most of the time, if you are prone, in the field, you won't be able to see a man beyond 300m, because of vegetation blocking your view. Sitting is nowhere near as steady as is prone, and it's a lot harder to adequately "rest" the gun from sitting. Furthermore, having no wind, no mirage no target movement is not common either. So, hits beyond about 600 yds are quite often achieved mostly by luck.

    Furthermore, none of the commercial rds have enough velocity left to expand a softpoint at 1500 yds. Those "hunters" firing at deer at such ranges are scumbags. Their bullets take 2.5 seconds to cover such a distance, and the deer can easily take one step in .5 second. That one step mean a gut hit instead of a chest hit, and the are certainly in no position to again hit a running deer. With a mile's head start on them, a gut shot deer, with a non expanding bullet, is going to be suffering for a long time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2003
  13. labgrade

    labgrade Member In Memoriam

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    There's some that have done the l'il p'dogs well-past 1000 yards.

    Figure a Height = 4" X a width of 2"

    okeydoke, I won't argue about taking game (you are correct, for game), but that wasn't the question.

    Poke a goodly enough hole through somebody at fairly extreme range & you've taken 'em out of the picture.

    Not really much difference of shooting somebody at 25 yards with a 124+p 9mm versus doing the same energy dump/terminal effect equivalent at 1000 yards+

    Not like it's a defensive situation regards saving your own life at the moment - you just want to take 'em away ..... Dor-A-Thee .... ? ;)
     
  14. Soap

    Soap Member

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    ...
     
  15. cratz2

    cratz2 Member

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    Yeah, probably just luck. Assisted by years of practical shooting at long ranges... :rolleyes:

    Accurately shooting for the first time at 300 yards might be luck. Someone that very well knows the basics of shooting at 500 yards, doing some computation on drop and judging wind and connecting at 800 or 900 yards might be luck. A 10 year veteran sniper making a kill at 600 yards is NOT luck.
     
  16. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    Youoften hear about incredibly long shots made by snipers at 1000+ yards, but you rarely hear about how many misses it took at such ranges before someone made a hit. At these distances, a few feet of misjudged distance is the difference between a hit and a miss.
     
  17. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I like cracked butt's answer. Very few of us non-military types have the time and funding to practice enough to make very long shots on the first try. All those "records" from this and that podunk shooting range are pretty unimpressive unless you know that the guy took his rifle out of its case and fired a single shot for the hit. Haven't we all seen guys get excited that they shot the "bulleye" once, but the rest of the target is randomly peppered? Yawn.
     
  18. Dr.Rob

    Dr.Rob Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know Steve, the idea for our best guys is to only take one shot, then get out of dodge.

    Granted, MOST of thier shots are not 1000 yarders, but the training suggests, that if the average grunt (marine) with an m-16 can poke you at 300 yards, you had better be at least 500 yards away before you take a shot, preferably farther.

    I don't think these guys do thier jobs making those shots with blind luck. They train to do this stuff for a living, hours a day practicing.

    If us armchair commandos trained like they do, we'd all be bragging about 1000 yard shots.

    To date, my longest made shot on big game was just over 400 yards. And it took me years of misses to be able to say I made that shot. But I'll say this, I don't miss much anymore.:scrutiny:

    And I'll also say this.. shooting a Barrett .50 of a bench almost doubled my effective range, as I was nailing a 10 inch smiley face between the eyes at 600 yards. I thought that was pretty good for someone who had never handled a Barret.. but KNEW how to asked the guy that sighted it in, how low to hold the crosshairs, knew to practice breath control, trigger squeeze etc.

    Just thank god I didn't have to lug the damn thing up a hill, through a creek and into a hidey-spot to make the shot.
     
  19. labgrade

    labgrade Member In Memoriam

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    Tried to do a post last night & the 'puter failed - probablly for the best, at the time.

    With a laser-ranger & a ballistic 'puter-thing, one ought to be able to drop a bullet pretty much on-target - assuming some things.

    I'll never argue the hunting aspect = go for good shots always, but as a sniper-type who'd just want to eliminate a "bad guy?" .... totally different scenario.

    Whoops! I missed his heart & just smoked a liver = still, a pretty good enough thing all told. Worst case, he's outa the picture.
     
  20. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    A gunrag article some 40 years back spoke of a wheel-chair guy who hunted with buddies. I believe it was in VA or WV. Anyhow, they had a splendiferous range-finder and something like 7mm Rem Mag or equivalent.

    The usual target would be resting deer across a valley from a highway with a turnout parking area. The state game department made special dispensation for wheel-chair folks. The shots were not across the road, but from alongside and away from it.

    Shots were not taken on standing or moving deer. Maybeso "Code of the West" behavior, if you will.

    IIRC, most shots were in the 500- to 800-yard range. Per the article, there was no history of wounded animals which escaped to be lost.

    Again, memory...

    Art
     
  21. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    DR ROB!!!

    Please re-read my post. You ECHOED my comments. I have nothing but respect for TRAINED snipers. My criticism was directed toward civilian armchair commandos!
     
  22. SodaPop

    SodaPop member

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    My civilian armchair commando Ruger 10/22 shoots a bullet that is deadly up to a mile and a half. Says so on the box.:neener:
     
  23. Gordon

    Gordon Member

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    I know about these guys in Penn in early 60s and allways wanted to join. But I was young and poor and they were well heeled enough to have OUTRAGEOUS rifles and battle ship binocs and range finders. When Doctor Ramon Somavia of Hollister Ca. estate was sold I bought his .258 Super Condor that mimics these early long range guy's guns. These guys were getting deer CLOSE to 1000 yds and were oldtime benchresters. I dont know who does it today but would imagine a very low drag .50BMG doesnt need to open to prove real final even at 1500yds. Back in 1962 they were using .300 weatherbys with 200 Sierra matchkings and .264 Win Mag with 140's. Always with big Unertl target scopes on 30 lb bench guns with 36" barrels.
     
  24. kidcoltoutlaw

    kidcoltoutlaw Member

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    don't judge others by your own skill.:neener:
     
  25. Blueduck

    Blueduck Member

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    If they didn't shoot them when they were standing or moving when did they :confused:
     
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