Maximum legal overall length of pistols

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hitpure

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I have a technical question, about legal overall length of pistols, which some may find narrow and specific to my situation (I live in SC)...

I have bought a PWS MK109 pistol in 300 BLK (9.75" barrel, OAL 25.6"). It comes from the factory with the SIG brace. I plan to use it suppressed, for hunting smaller game, and recreational shooting (suppressor is the YHM Phantom 7.62). Because of its short barrel length, YHM told me I could only use that suppressor with subsonic ammo, due to risk of baffle strikes. To use supersonic, they said I needed a barrel length of 10.5" minimum.

I want to be able to suppress both subsonic and supersonic, so I am considering buying the PWS MK112 300 BLK upper (12.75") , to put on the pistol lower. This would result in an overall pistol length of 28.6".

I do not own an AR rifle or AR stock, so I am not at risk of creating an SBR later.

My question is...

When I put the longer MK112upper on the MK109 lower, do I still have a "legal length" pistol? Is there a maximum OAL for pistols in the eyes of the Feds? (excluding Michigan)

Thanks in advance if anyone has experience with this issue.
 
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I am no expert with this so i probably should not be commenting on this. BUT i have a pistol .223 with Sig brace that fits my son perfectly. Thought about putting a 10" 300 upper on it so he could use it for pistol season here in MO. From what i understand as long as it was original sold as a pistol and you follow the ATF guide lines ( no stock or forward grip) you can put as long of a barrel on it as you want. Some of the Thompson Center Barrels are quite long for a pistol but still classified as one.

Oh and a removable suppressor is not included in the overall of a firearm length according to the ATF.
 
No maximum on pistol lengths as has been stated. Also worth looking into is recently it was clarified that a pistol with an OAL of I think 26.5" cannot be 'readily concealed' and you CAN put a vertical foregrip on it without turning its classification into an any other weapon (which would require the $200 tax stamp).

From an article on Arfcom.
You can have a VFG on an AR15 pistol as long as it doesn't have a stock, is at least 26" in overall length, and is not concealed on your person. It is no longer classified as a rifle, a pistol, an AOW, or SBR. It is simply an AR15 "firearm."
Click to expand...
 
Under Federal laws...
If the firearm's barrel length is less than 16" and the overall length is greater than 26" and it does not have a shoulder stock, then it is considered a Title 1 Other and not a Title 1 Handgun.

As a Title 1 Other, it is legal to attach a vertical forward grip to it.

As a Title 1 Handgun, it isl illegal to attach a vertical forward grip to it. In order to legally attach a vertical forward grip, BATFE approval must first be obtained to make the Title 1 Handgun into a Title 2 AOW.
 
hitpure said:
My question is...
When I put the longer MK112upper on the MK109 lower, do I still have a "legal length" pistol? Is there a maximum OAL for pistols in the eyes of the Feds?
Click to expand...
Under Federal laws...

With the PWS MK109 (9.75" barrel + OAL 25.6" + no shoulder stock) attached = firearm is classified as a Title 1 Handgun

With the PWS MK112 (12.75" barrel + OAL 28.6" + no shoulder stock) attached = firearm is classified as a Title 1 Other
 
IHMSA has a barrel length max of 15 inches in unlimited class so I think that is why Remington chose the barrel length they did for XP's
 
A firearm without a stock, greater than 26" oal is neither a pistol, or long gun, but simply a 'firearm'. This even includes Michigan, since we finally did away with that stupid "Michigan Pistol" long gun classification.

Still, I think the age limit to purchase from an FFL is 21+, private sales 18+.

I'm building an AR pistol and will use my carbine upper to test the lower until my barreled upper is in hand. Perfectly legal, with the pistol buffer and carbine upper.

Your 28.5" firearm is legal. Its not a rifle, as it has no stock and has not been designed or redesigned to be fired from, the shoulder, and it is not a pistol because it is 26"+ OAL. Possibly considered a firearm made from a pistol, if such a classification exists. Cutting the stock off a rifle while keeping OAL 26"+ yields a classification of firearm made from a rifle, and is legal, albeit impractical. In other words, you are A-OK, Federally.
 
To the OP- you said you live in SC.
You may be aware but a pistol longer than 12" is not legally concealable with a CWP under SC law if you did not know.....
 
Beside what you might here from the posters. You need to do some home work on your situation.

Use the internet as a vehicle to "learn." J s/n. :)
 
Possibly considered a firearm made from a pistol, if such a classification exists.
Click to expand...
Nope. Does not exist. "Firearm made from a rifle" is a classification that DOES exist, and that is an NFA Title II firearm, meaning registration, $200 stamp, etc.

Cutting the stock off a rifle while keeping OAL 26"+ yields a classification of firearm made from a rifle...
Click to expand...
No. The term "firearm made from a rifle" is VERY specific and is only for NFA Title II weapons. A rifled firearm over 26" long is just an "other firearm" -- not a "firearm made from a rifle."

Confusing, but important.
 
Thanks for opening the conversation. I too was concerned about barrel length for a Pistol in MO Alternate season. I'd like to sub my 16" 6.8 upper on a pistol lower I could have complete by then.

One nitpick I will bring up is that if the overall length is over 26" and that makes it an "other," then it's no longer a "pistol." It's not a "rifle," either, but some state laws and their interpretation when discussed on boards make it seem as if there's no difference. "Pistols" and "others" are two distinct classifications, just like "rifles" and "pistols" are.

I'm concerned that someone carrying an "other" but exercising their rights as if it were a "pistol" may bump up against an LEO who sees it differently. I've known them to measure legal blade lengths of pocket knives by holding it across their palm and pronouncing it legal or not. An officer who decides an over 26" gun isn't a pistol under their state statutes isn't going to argue their determination, he will let you do it with the judge.

For all the tightly focused interest in just exactly what constitutes a "pistol," this seems to be getting ignored. If it's no longer a "pistol" and becomes an "other," I would then expect those words to have meaning and enforcement could be strictly interpreted.

It could be entirely legal to have a VFG on it, but illegal to carry concealed.

NFA and interpretation is like reaching into a bag of snakes and pulling one out for a pet. It helps to be able to closely identify the features.
 
When I put the longer MK112upper on the MK109 lower, do I still have a "legal length" pistol? Is there a maximum OAL for pistols in the eyes of the Feds?
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as a MAXIMUM pistol length in Federal law. As long as it's legally a pistol you could have a thirty foot barrel on it.

MINIMUM length (overall size, really) only counts for IMPORTED firearms, hence the post '68 ban on IMPORTATION of the Walther PPK and the creation of the Walther PPK/S which meets the requirements. Domestically produced PPKs are of course exempt.
 
Sam1911 said:
Nope. Does not exist. "Firearm made from a rifle" is a classification that DOES exist, and that is an NFA Title II firearm, meaning registration, $200 stamp, etc.

No. The term "firearm made from a rifle" is VERY specific and is only for NFA Title II weapons. A rifled firearm over 26" long is just an "other firearm" -- not a "firearm made from a rifle."

Confusing, but important.
Click to expand...
Sam, thanks for clearing that up. Wasn't sure about the nitty gritty details.
 
No worries! At least we didn't wander down the path of trying to figure out the difference between "Other Firearm" and "Any Other Weapon!"


(Like, who thought this stuff up, anyway? Mrs. McCave?)
 
Many thanks to the generous responders to this thread, you have cleared up the question for me. I had attempted to research the issue prior to posting, but was only able to find muddled and conflicting info. You guys truly made my day. Now back to work, so I can afford the crazy-expensive 300 BLK ammo I now have to order.

Hitpure
 
All of the barrel measurements above are without the flash hider correct?

My barrel is 11.5, but I have a Noveske KX5 which is 3 1/4" long, but not pinned. That makes the total of the pistol 28 1/4" long.

ARPistol-Spikes_zps7bc62cee.jpg
 
Some states have a maximum length or maximum weight limit for their own definitions of "pistol." Arkansas and Michigan, for example.
 
What would be the maximum length/maximum weight limit in Arkansas? Would keeping the pistol (legal in Texas) concealed while traveling through or staying the night in a motel in Arkansas be illegal?
 
Some states have a maximum length or maximum weight limit for their own definitions of "pistol." Arkansas and Michigan, for example.
Click to expand...

I've never heard of a weight/length limit in Arkansas and cannot find it online. Can you point us to a link?
 
Oklahoma has a maximum length a pistol can be for carry. A pistol that is to be carried open or concealed has to be less than sixteen inches long. You can have a pistol of any length, but not for carry. That law is what prompted me to develop the lever action pistols I make out of other mares legs such as the Rossi Ranch Hand, or those made by Henry, etc.. I cut them down to 15-15/16" overall length. Take a look.

Woody
 
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