May 9th, 1945
- Thread starter max popenker
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Sans Authoritas
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Europe. Out of the frying pan, into the fire. Liberated by rapists. Huzzah.
-Sans Authoritas
-Sans Authoritas
Not to defend the USSR, but there was a lot of that blame to spread around.
After all, the Germans didn't rape ANYONE in thier assault.
Doesn't excuse it, but it does properly frame the context. It's a mistake to leave out the desire for vengence and retribution component out.
-- John
max popenker
Member
The-Fly
Member
Thanks for the reminder Max. 63 years ago, the slaughter in Europe stopped. It cost the lives of 11 million+ Russian soldiers alone (not to mention the rest of the Allies) to achieve that victory.
SDC
Member
Interesting photos and posters, Max, thanks for sharing. Does anyone have any photos of what the top-cover of a Maxim 1905 or early 1910 looked like, or how they were marked? I've only been able to find some mid-40s 1910s, marked with an odd arrow-in-a-hexagon (Izhevsk?) mark. If the early ones were marked the same way most of the other Imperial guns were marked, I'd expect a double-headed eagle. I'd also be interested in seeing the manufacturer's markings on the PTRS and PTRD.
Sometimes I get so pumped up by Soviet weapons, the cool uniforms, the military history, etc I forget that in May 1945, four decades of Soviet oppression of eastern Europe began. 
Didn't WWII start to defend Poland from being dominated by a dictator and prevent their land from being taken? Oh wait a second, when the smoke cleared in 1945 Poland was conquered and Stalin annexed eastern Poland. The same with Czechoslovakia. They were conquered in 1939, then re-conquered in 1945.
Amazing how we were so brave in standing up to Hitler, yet we backed down from Stalin and in the process betrayed millions of eastern Europeans to a miserable fate.
Didn't WWII start to defend Poland from being dominated by a dictator and prevent their land from being taken? Oh wait a second, when the smoke cleared in 1945 Poland was conquered and Stalin annexed eastern Poland. The same with Czechoslovakia. They were conquered in 1939, then re-conquered in 1945.
Amazing how we were so brave in standing up to Hitler, yet we backed down from Stalin and in the process betrayed millions of eastern Europeans to a miserable fate.
Deanimator
Member
"I poked a mountain lion in the behind with a stick and it BIT me!!!" I'll bet that's even funny in German!
Yeah, it was a shame what happened to the women of East Prussia. It was also shame what happened to the women of Russia, the victims at Babi Yar, etc.
I'm fond of saying to ultra-rightwing Japanese (and neo-Nazis PRETENDING to be ultra-rightwing Japanese) who whine about Hiroshima and Nagasaki, "So, that whole Rape of Nanking/Pearl Harbor thing didn't work out for you, huh?"
Well, some people would say "So, that whole invading Poland, the Low Countries, France and the USSR thing" didn't work out so well for Germany, huh?"... nevermind that whole "Holocaust thing".
Actions have consequences, sometimes even unfair consequences.
Deanimator
Member
The West (especially the UK) was tired, broke, gullible and to a certain extent, infiltrated by Soviet agents of influence.
The real tragedy was that had Czechoslovakia been backed up, they could have put a serious whupping on the Wehrmacht.
oneshooter
Member
Perhaps Patton did have the right idea!
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
hankdatank1362
Member
You know... I don't consider myself a WWII "buff" by any means, esp. not compared to many of you guys... but I have studied it somewhat extesively and know a lot more about it that anyone else in their early twenties that I can think of.
But you know something? I never bothered to think about what happened after the war. Reconsruction, and the Soviet influence. All this is very interesting.
I'm off tah go ed-ji-mi-cate mahself.
But you know something? I never bothered to think about what happened after the war. Reconsruction, and the Soviet influence. All this is very interesting.
I'm off tah go ed-ji-mi-cate mahself.
ZeSpectre
Member
can anyone translate the russian posters? I'd be very interested to know what the propaganda actually says.
LaEscopeta
Member
Not to defend the USSR or the Imperial Japanese, but no one should think US forces in WW II were always good and proper like the Hollywood movies show. There were incidents of GIs raping, looting, shooting prisoners, burning civilian houses, etc in all theaters throughout WWII. The book “The Good War” by Studs Trukell (sp?) is a collection of interviews of American WWII veterans, and is a good place to start to see how ugly people can behave in war.
Or as a WWII combat veteran US Marine Sergeant said (paraphase) “There are few things as brutal as the average 19 year old American male.”
Chipperman
Member
Great posters, Max!
Can you (or anyone else who can read that) please write a translation for each of them?
Can you (or anyone else who can read that) please write a translation for each of them?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
It didn't stop, it just moved on to different victims.
What about the 15 million German civilians that found themselves on the wrong side of the post war fence? Estimates put Stalin's revenge death toll at around 2 million post war.
Our ally Russia (in the form of their leaders), that we rightfully at the time considered a partner against Hitler's tyranny, turns out to have been as bad or worse than that common enemy.
As with Hitler it is not fair to compare the vast majority of good citizens of both Russia and Germany with their evil leaders of course. The Russian people, for what they withstood during Hitlers assualt's, are a testament to humanity's strength of will and something that even the blight of Stalin can't take from them.
Plus, you've got to remember that the social engineers of the time weren't just soviet. FDR was every bit as much of a totalitarian as Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin, and until the Soviets decided they were going to try to be the ascendant political theory post-war, there was a pretty strong bond of mutual admiration for the sort of socialistic government experiments all parties involved were trying.
Gene_WI
Member
Remember the fallen on this day.
Chipperman
Member
But he gave us our wonderful Alphabet Agencies and BIG Government.
brighamr
Member
So... can anyone translate the posters? I'm interested in what they say...
Devonai
Member
I think he was just demonstrating a field expedient method for adjusting the rear sight.
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/-9--preparation-for-may-9th-moscow-part-1/2803478392
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/moscow-may-9th-08-parade-russian-anthem/3758610910?icid=acvsv3
The fought a hard war, the made sacrifices. Victory is Victory and hero's are hero's. They have my respect for that.
HAIL THE HONORED DEAD
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/moscow-may-9th-08-parade-russian-anthem/3758610910?icid=acvsv3
The fought a hard war, the made sacrifices. Victory is Victory and hero's are hero's. They have my respect for that.
HAIL THE HONORED DEAD
SDC
Member
I'm a beginner at Russian, but I'll give it a shot; from top to bottom:
"Mother Russia Calls" while holding a paper reading "military oath".
Mother at point of bayonet: "Warriors of the Red Army, HELP!"
Soldier, sailor, old couple: "The defenders of the city of Lenin" (ie. Leningrad)
Old fellow with 91/30: "Our forces have no end"
Soldier striking down a sign with the butt of his rifle: "To the West!" while the sign reads "East - To Vostok".
The soldier holding an SVT up is saying something about Moscow, but "otstoim" isn't in my dictionary.
Soldier holding PPSh: "You have returned to us!"
Soldier rolling a cigarette in front of "Hitler's Germany" sign under stahlhelm: I think this is a colloquialism, meaning something similar to "Just like we meant to".
Again, something like: "The proper end for a Fascist beast".
"The Red Army - glory!"
Hitler menaced by flags: "He doesn't like this!"
Russian seems to have a whole bunch of related sayings that depend on a story behind them, and unless you know the story, the saying doesn't make sense, but these are my best try at the posters.
"Mother Russia Calls" while holding a paper reading "military oath".
Mother at point of bayonet: "Warriors of the Red Army, HELP!"
Soldier, sailor, old couple: "The defenders of the city of Lenin" (ie. Leningrad)
Old fellow with 91/30: "Our forces have no end"
Soldier striking down a sign with the butt of his rifle: "To the West!" while the sign reads "East - To Vostok".
The soldier holding an SVT up is saying something about Moscow, but "otstoim" isn't in my dictionary.
Soldier holding PPSh: "You have returned to us!"
Soldier rolling a cigarette in front of "Hitler's Germany" sign under stahlhelm: I think this is a colloquialism, meaning something similar to "Just like we meant to".
Again, something like: "The proper end for a Fascist beast".
"The Red Army - glory!"
Hitler menaced by flags: "He doesn't like this!"
Russian seems to have a whole bunch of related sayings that depend on a story behind them, and unless you know the story, the saying doesn't make sense, but these are my best try at the posters.
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
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