MBC IDP #9 155 gr SWC in 40 S&W OAL problems in a LWD barrel

[darkdan]

Long time lurker, first time poster! Go me!

Pre-panic, against my better judgement, I bought 2000 of the MBC 155 gr SWC because the interwebs said people load them in semi-autos without a problem.

Well I'm finally out of .40 and it's time to load these up. I'm really having a hard time getting the OAL right so they'll feed.

I started at 1.125, they hand-fed from the magazine well. At the range about 6/20 wouldn't chamber. I ran some 1.135 and 1.145 and both cycled 8/10 at the range. I came home, I decided let's try shorter. 1.110 only cycled 7/15 while shooting, but hand cycled just fine at home.

It looks like the round goes up the ramp, but doesn't want to turn down into the barrel. Tomorrow I might go longer, maybe see how close to the rifling I can get.

Any advice or suggestions? Or does my LWD barrel for my Glock 22 and SWC just not play nicely?

 

[rcmodel]

Only advice I have is, don't buy 2,000 light-for-caliber, wrong style bullets next time, before you know if Your Gun will feed them or not.

Especially for a .40 S&W designed from the get-go to feed truncated cone bullets with no SWC sharp shoulder.

At best, seat them so you have a thumb-nail thickness of the front driving band sticking out of the case.

Then taper-crimp to .421" - .422" at the case mouth and try again.

If that don't work?
You have close to 2,000 bullets on hand you can't get your gun to ever eat without feed ramp and chamber throating mods to make it do so.

rc

 

[ess45]

LWD barrels are known to have tight and undersized chamber.

I have no feeding problem with SWC of different weight from several sources including MBC on my Glock22 with stock barrel.

 

[LiveLife]

I use Lone Wolf barrels for G22/G23/G27 and all of the Missouri bullets (IDP #2/#5/#7/#9) feed and chamber.

I would first inspect and clean the extractor area to make sure there's no hard gunk built up to prevent case rim from freely sliding up the breech wall. Next, I would chamber check the test rounds to make sure they all fell into the chamber freely with a "plonk" before function checking them from the magazine.

The comparison picture below shows the OAL/COL I use for my Glocks and Lone Wolf barrels.

 

[darkdan]

Only advice I have is, don't buy 2,000 light-for-caliber, wrong style bullets next time, before you know if Your Gun will feed them or not.

Like I said, it was against my better judgement, normally I'm pretty cautious about stuff like this, but my friends and I made a big order. I knew I should have gone with the 170 gr.

Worse comes to worst, I can always sell them. After 1.5 years, probably at a profit too!

Currently looks like the Lee factory crimp die is squeezing it to .419 to .420. Should I back that off a little? My first thought was more crimp!

At 4.125 is about thumbnail thick I guess depending on your thumbnails.

I just tried 4.155, way too long. I could barely get the slide back again.

LWD barrels are known to have tight and undersized chamber.

I have no feeding problem with SWC of different weight from several sources including MBC on my Glock22 with stock barrel.

LWD strikes again! I'm beginning to think it may be that.


I guess by the end of these 2000 bullets I should be really good at tap-rack-bang if only 80% feed right the first time.

 

[darkdan]

I use Lone Wolf barrels for G22/G23/G27 and all of the Missouri bullets (IDP #2/#5/#7/#9) feed and chamber.

I would first inspect and clean the extractor area to make sure there's no hard gunk built up to prevent case rim from freely sliding up the breech wall. Next, I would chamber check the test rounds to make sure they all fell into the chamber freely with a "plonk" before function checking them from the magazine.

The comparison picture below shows the OAL/COL I use for my Glocks and Lone Wolf barrels.

Actually while googling yesterday to figure this out, I ran across your pictures. That's why I tried shortening mine up too since you're running a bit deeper than I was.

I could give 1.120 a try, but so far 1.125 and 1.110 were a bust.

Since I'm using a Lee Turret, my OAL varies a little bit anyhow.

 

[LiveLife]

It looks like the round goes up the ramp, but doesn't want to turn down into the barrel.

During feeding of a round from the magazine, slide rib pushes the bullet nose against the feed ramp but once the case rim clears the magazine lips, the mag spring/follower pushes the case rim up the breech wall inside the extractor.

- I would first inspect the rim of the rounds that did not feed for obvious damage that would prevent the rim from freely sliding up the extractor.
- Next, I would inspect and clean the extractor area to make sure there's no hard gunk built up to prevent case rim from freely sliding up the breech wall.
- Since the feeding issue was not just with the last round, I would check the magazine spring and replace if weak/worn.
- If the feeding issue is with the last round also, I would inspect the mag follower for wear and replace if worn.
- Next, I would chamber check the test rounds to make sure they all fell into the barrel/chamber freely with a "plonk" before function checking them from the magazine.

Currently looks like the Lee factory crimp die is squeezing it to .419 to .420. Should I back that off a little? My first thought was more crimp!

I do not use the Lee Factory Crimp Die with larger sized (.401") lead bullets as it was meant to be used with jacketed sized bullets (.400") and use of FCD with larger sized lead bullets may reduce neck tension from post-sizing of bullet and brass spring-back. As rcmodel posted, just use .421"-.422" taper crimp and set the FCD aside.

 

[darkdan]

Alright, tomorrow I'll clean my gun, if that doesn't help I'll look into getting a new die.

 

[LiveLife]

I seat and taper crimp with the same die. If the taper crimp is not aggressive, you won't need to worry about shaving the side of the bullet.

You can try it first and always get a separate taper crimp die if you prefer to seat and taper crimp in different steps.

 

[gamestalker]

What are the specifics of the powder charge you are using? I'm asking because it sounds like the action might not be traveling far enough back to allow enough of the head pop up, maybe? Considering it's happening on such a large number of the test batches, the load might be right on the cusp of just enough.

I don't know much about that particular bullet, but if it creates more internal case capacity while using the same powder charge that has worked well with a different bullet, than who knows, it might be the powder charge is a smidge low, thus not enough pressure is being generated.

So if you wouldn't mind opening the whole "powder charge" can of worms it might prove useful in some manner.

GS

 

[LiveLife]

Good point GS.

 

[shooter1]

I've had problems with LW barrels in both 9mm and .40. It's a combination of short leade and tight chambers. I'm shooting the MB 155gn LSWC right now myself. They run fine in the Glock barrel, but have an occasional feed malfunction with the LW. I'm going to get a gunsmith to clean up the chamber and leade, just haven't gotten it done yet. The factory barrel runs them perfectly, and without leading, so not a lot of urgency on my part. I'm not suggesting anyone run lead in the Glock barrels, just passing on my experience.
str1
edit: I should mention that LW will fix the barrels according to the guys over at Glock Talk. Just call LW and tell them you need to return a barrel for the "Glock Hole" modification.

 

[sexybeast]

Try shooting some in your stock barrel. If they work then you know its the lone wolf barrel, if they don't then you know its your load or the bullet.
Don't use a factory crimp die with lead either, it squishes the bullet skinnier/smaller diameter.
Oh, and I also shoot 155 swc in my glock, m&p, and 1911 and they feed fine.
I suspect its the barrel. In my not so humble opinion lone wolf barrels are out-of-spec crap.

 

[LiveLife]

shooter1, since the OP was using the FCD, all the rounds should have passed the barrel drop test. That's why I suggested to the OP to check the test rounds so they pass the barrel drop test before function checking them by feeding from the magazine. I figured if OP's problem was a tight chamber, the test rounds would not pass the barrel drop test.

I would chamber check the test rounds to make sure they all fell into the chamber freely with a "plonk" before function checking them from the magazine.

If it was a tight chamber issue, the rounds would still feed but the slide would not go to full battery and hang up about 1/4 inch+ out with the rounds aligned to the chamber. The OP posted the rounds are stuck at an angle and not turning into the chamber.

It looks like the round goes up the ramp, but doesn't want to turn down into the barrel

It is for these reasons why I suggested OP look at extractor/magazine first to rule them out and GS' suggestion of insufficient powder charge could be a factor too of slide not coming back far enough.

If OP decides not to use the FCD, the tight chamber may become an issue but OP would find that out when the rounds are barrel drop tested.

 

[LiveLife]

In my not so humble opinion lone wolf barrels are out-of-spec crap.

Lone Wolf claims their barrels are spec'd for jacketed diameter bullets. So I would not call them "out-of-spec crap" unless factory rounds did not feed/chamber in their barrels. I do agree that they should mention this more clearly on their website so customers looking to use Lone Wolf barrels with larger diameter lead bullets can order them with enlarged chambers (you can send them your dummy reloads so they can match the barrel/chamber to your reload specs). For me, I only experienced one Lone Wolf barrel that had slightly tighter chamber so as to not fully chamber .401" sized Missouri bullets and the problem was resolved by slightly polishing the forward part of the chamber with 400/800 grit wet/dry sandpaper.

This is what they post on their FAQ page - https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=FAQ page#Reloading Issues:

Reloading Issues:

Remove the barrel from the slide. Drop a factory round into the chamber. If the factory round fits slightly lower than the top of the barrel hood you are looking good to go. If the factory round does not sit slightly below the top of the barrel hood you will need to return the barrel to LWD and we will fix it right away.

The problem is most likely caused by an expanded or swelled case head that has not been fully resized. Ammunition that is fired from an original Glock factory barrel produces (very) expanded case heads. This expansion occurs because of the large chamber used in Glock factory barrels. Many reloaders think they are full length resizing their brass but this simply is not true. The sizer die has a beveled area located at the entrance of the die mouth. This beveled area helps guide the straight walled cartridge into the die. The case rim is held with a shell holder. The area of the cartridge that is between this beveled area and the shell holder never gets resized completely.

If you drop your reload into a LWD barrel and the case head (rim) sits above the barrel hood this is a good indication your brass is bulged and not resized correctly. Here is 2 ways to fix this problem:

1 Run your loads through a case gauge before shooting. Many reloaders currently use Dillon or Midway stainless case gauges however these manufactures are known to have liberal tolerances. If your Dillon or Midway case gauge works with the LWD chamber you are good to go. If not, we recommend you use the EGW case gauge. The EGW is known to run tighter tolerances. Once the reload is fired from the LWD barrel you should not have a feed problem again.

2 You can return your barrel to Lone Wolf and include 4 or 5 dummy rounds of your reloads (no powder or primer) and we will open up the chamber to accommodate your loaded round.

*If you are reloading 40 S&W or 10mm we recommend you use the Redding GRX push through die to remove 100% of the case budge.

If you'd like to have your barrel reamed to your reloads we charge $30 (includes return shipping)

 

[darkdan]

What are the specifics of the powder charge you are using?

GS

3.9~4.0 gr of Clays (Lee Auto Disk). At 1.125 it was giving me 1002 fps average, SD 13.95.

3.7 gr gave me 949 fps and SD 14.17.

edit: I should mention that LW will fix the barrels according to the guys over at Glock Talk. Just call LW and tell them you need to return a barrel for the "Glock Hole" modification.

I'll give the factory barrel a shot. I'm sure it will feed them no problems. I'll just clean it well.

Don't get me started on that. When I first bought this barrel I paid extra for blind marking and black oxide coating. The first barrel I got wouldn't feed anything. I sent it back, they opened it to the point there was no chamber support left. They charged me to replace it, wouldn't blind mark or black oxide coat it without paying a second time, and the whole process took 5 months. Since then I've had no problems until I bought SWC.

Try shooting some in your stock barrel. If they work then you know its the lone wolf barrel, if they don't then you know its your load or the bullet.
Don't use a factory crimp die with lead either, it squishes the bullet skinnier/smaller diameter.
Oh, and I also shoot 155 swc in my glock, m&p, and 1911 and they feed fine.
I suspect its the barrel. In my not so humble opinion lone wolf barrels are out-of-spec crap.

I'm placing a midway order today for a new crimping die.

 

[sexybeast]

Don't get me started on that. When I first bought this barrel I paid extra for blind marking and black oxide coating. The first barrel I got wouldn't feed anything. I sent it back, they opened it to the point there was no chamber support left. They charged me to replace it, wouldn't blind mark or black oxide coat it without paying a second time, and the whole process took 5 months. Since then I've had no problems until I bought SWC.

I hear this all the time. It should work/feed right out of the package. Simply put: " Out of spec crap"!! Why buy a lone wolf barrel with a super tight chamber and that won't feed for FMJ bullets when its advertised for lead??????? Sounds like the owner makes as quite a bit fixing his own products.
Most everyone I know who bought a Lone Wolf barrel has had problems with it or had to change everything in their loading to get it to work.
They "use" to advertise their barrels as the answer to shooting lead in a glock. But its an answer to a problem that does not exist except on forums with overblown internet hype by people who read a lot and shoot very little.
Kind of like the people who "hate" Fox news but then in the same breath they will say that they have never watched it.
Any barrel will lead up with the wrong loads or the wrong diameter bullets.
I get less leading in my glock barrels than my 1911 barrels.
Again in my "not so humble opinion" the only reason to get an aftermatket barrel for your glock is for caliber conversions. i have a Storm Lake in my Glock 20 so I can shoot 40.

 

[LiveLife]

... people who read a lot and shoot very little.

... the only reason to get an aftermatket barrel for your glock is for caliber conversions.

With all due respect, the OP already has a Lone Wolf barrel and came to THR forum for solutions. Just what part of your last post offered solutions to OP's current problem?

I do shoot quite a lot of lead loads in Glocks with Lone Wolf barrels both in 40S&W and 40-9 conversion. While I would suggest KKM makes a fine product, I would not claim all Lone Wolf barrels are "out-of-spec" crap. There are many shooters who use Lone Wolf barrels not just for caliber conversion and would disagree with your opinion.

Are 40S&W Lone Wolf chambers tight? Yes, that's been my experience but for KB prone 40S&W, I prefer tight chambers with full case support that provide less working of the brass.

 

[LiveLife]

I've had no problems until I bought SWC.

So are you saying you didn't have any feeding/chambering problems with other lead bullets like TCFP?

 

[sexybeast]

With all due respect, the OP already has a Lone Wolf barrel and came to THR forum for solutions. Just what part of your last post offered solutions to OP's current problem?

Hmmmm? Maybe i was vague but I will spell it out. My solution is to sell the "out of spec piece of crap" barrel and use the stock barrel.
Use the money and buy more bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

My solution is to sell the "out of spec piece of crap" barrel and use the stock barrel.

Why get rid of the barrel that works? OP posted that there was no problem until SWC bullet was introduced.

I've had no problems until I bought SWC.

That's why I asked for clarification whether OP had similar issues with other lead bullets like TCFP. If not, then the issue may be SWC related.

Let's hear back from the OP.

 

[darkdan]

i have a Storm Lake in my Glock 20 so I can shoot 40.

After the lone wolf problem, I wouldn't buy another LWD product. My 40-9 conversion barrel is Storm Lake. Love it.

I'm thinking of getting their 6" G35 barrel for my 22....just because I'm weird.

Are 40S&W Lone Wolf chambers tight? Yes, that's been my experience but for KB prone 40S&W, I prefer tight chambers with full case support that provide less working of the brass.

That's exactly why I bought it and why I wasn't happy when they "polished" away all chamber support and then charged me a "restocking fee" to exchange it and wouldn't send me a black oxide/blind marked barrel unless I paid a second time for it.

This barrel does average 40 fps faster than my Glock barrel.



That's the old one that they "polished."

So are you saying you didn't have any feeding/chambering problems with other lead bullets like TCFP?

No other problems with the LWD barrel with Berry's, Rainer, IMI FMJ, but these are the first lead through it.


I ran to the range today. 1.135 OAL. The factory Glock barrel had no problem, 15/15 fed fine. So looks like LWD isn't playing nicely with my SWC. So I'll either run them through the factory barrel and clean often or try a Storm Lake barrel.

 

[LiveLife]

Below is a comparison picture of 40S&W Lone Wolf and Gen3 Glock barrels showing much greater case support. Does your new Lone Wolf barrel show similar case support?

No other problems with the LWD barrel with Berry's, Rainer, IMI FMJ, but these are the first lead through it.

Most jacketed/plated bullets are sized more around .400". If you have issues with larger sized .401" lead bullets, you may need to have the chamber opened up (but I would leave the ramp as is to maintain case support) - https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=FAQ page#Reloading Issues:

Reloading Issues:

If the factory round does not sit slightly below the top of the barrel hood you will need to return the barrel to LWD and we will fix it right away ... You can return your barrel to Lone Wolf and include 4 or 5 dummy rounds of your reloads (no powder or primer) and we will open up the chamber to accommodate your loaded round.

 

[darkdan]

Below is a comparison picture of 40S&W Lone Wolf and Gen3 Glock barrels showing much greater case support. Does your new Lone Wolf barrel show similar case support?

Most jacketed/plated bullets are sized more around .400". If you have issues with larger sized .401" lead bullets, you may need to have the chamber opened up (but I would leave the ramp as is to maintain case support) - https://www.lonewolfdist.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=FAQ page#Reloading Issues:

My new one isn't that supported, but more than the Glock barrel.

Well the rounds drop in fine. They just go up the ramp and then don't turn down into the chamber.

 

[sexybeast]

After the lone wolf problem, I wouldn't buy another LWD product. My 40-9 conversion barrel is Storm Lake. Love it.

Like I said, it should work right out of the package. You are not alone with your frustrations with their barrels.

I ran to the range today. 1.135 OAL. The factory Glock barrel had no problem, 15/15 fed fine. So looks like LWD isn't playing nicely with my SWC. So I'll either run them through the factory barrel and clean often or try a Storm Lake barrel.

Cool. Shoot a hundred or so and check for leading. Make yourself comfortable that its not. Don't know how much you shoot but I shoot hundreds of rounds between cleaning. Little hoppes and a pull snake and its mirror clean.

[QUOTE3.9~4.0 gr of Clays (Lee Auto Disk). At 1.125 it was giving me 1002 fps average, SD 13.95.

3.7 gr gave me 949 fps and SD 14.17.

][/QUOTE]
I've never used clays but I am a fan of soft loads with lead. Have you benched the loads for accuracy? Compare the two? You would make "Minor" power factor with either of those loads so I would use 3.7