Measuring Recoil Spring weight.

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Working Man

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Wolf's 1911 Longslide Recoil Modifications spring kit "RECOIL CALIBRATION PAK" says
"contains 1 each of longslide recoil springs #1 thru #5 above"....
"denoted as #1 thru #5. Due to the custom nature of these modifications, no
rating for these springs is possible. The #1 recoil spring is the strongest and
#5 is the lightest. Fitting of these springs is required".

So I have 2 questions:

1) What is the best way for me to measure the # of each?

2) What do they mean by "Fitting of these springs is required"?

I have a 6" V-16 .45/.45 Super and an 6" Omega 10mm. Both seem to have a
low rnd count but I want to do my best to preserve them so I am wanting to
swap their springs out.
 
I was hoping someone would have an answer for this as I have one I need to check. Was thinking maybe a trigger pull gauge with appropriate fittings would work. Wasn't sure if the rating was to full compression of the spring, when it first starts to compress, or how it was measured.
 
JediJJJ, ZeSpectre, thanks.

I must say I'm a little surprised by this. Surely this must of come up for more
than just a scattered few of us.

Wasn't sure if the rating was to full compression of the spring, when it first starts to compress, or how it was measured.

Good question, I had not thought about that.
 
I believe that recoil spring weight is it's weight when compressed to the minimum length it will see in use, i.e., slide all the way back.
 
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I think what they're trying to tell you is that they can't give a pound rating to the springs like they do with regular length 1911 springs and the only way to tell if they will work is to try each one in your pistol and see which one works the best with the loads you're using.

For my wadcutter .45s, I use either a 9 or 10 pound spring but they are not long slides.

For my Clark .38 conversion, I use an 8 pound spring.

How I figured that out, was to try different springs with my reloads until I had one that cycled the slide, etc. consistently.

In my hardball .45 I use a 14 pound spring; two pounds lighter than the factory standard of 16 pounds.
 
How about trying to compress it and feel it compared to the original?

Want lighter or heavier it should show right up.


imho

tk
 
So I have 2 questions:

1) What is the best way for me to measure the # of each?

2) What do they mean by "Fitting of these springs is required"?
Six replies and zero answers.

1) Spring rate (aka pounds, #, or lbs/in) = number of pounds required to compress a spring by 1 inch in length.
If you want to know what the spring rate (#) is then figure out some way to hold the spring still under load then find some way to measure the force required to compress it one inch.
I guess what you could do with a recoil spring is mark a spot on your slide. Have two marks on your frame, one at the same mark on the slide and the other at 1" rearward on the frame.
Find some way to rig a fishing scale or trigger pull scale to the slide, then pull the scale and see what it reads when the mark on the slide lines up with the 1" mark on the frame.

What's really confusing is Wolff labels those springs as #1 through #5.
That is not to be confused with the normal method of labeling springs as their spring weight followed by "#" to denote "pounds."

2) "Fitting of these springs is required" is simply something manufactureers say to cover their butts. It means that you are responsible for correctly installing the springs.

Springs are a pain in the butt to keep track of. I put each spring in its own labeled bag. That way I never lose track of what spring rate it is.
Generally with autos you start with the heaviest spring and fire a bunch of rounds. If you have any failures to feed or eject then you swap out to the next lightest spring. Repeat the firing til you have a spring that works consistently.
 
OK . . . Let me try again

HammerBite said:
I believe that recoil spring weight is it's weight when compressed to the minimum length it will see in use, i.e., slide all the way back.

See this (PDF link).

So, the way to determine the spring weight in a particular gun is to use a spring tester that can measure the force of the spring at the length it will have in full recoil when in that gun. The PDF link shown above has a picture of a spring tester, which, unfortunately, is no longer made.

The reason Wolf cannot sell springs of a specific weight for a longslide is that longslides are custom conversions and Wolf has no way of knowing the dimensions within which the spring must work.
Fumbler said:
Generally with autos you start with the heaviest spring and fire a bunch of rounds. If you have any failures to feed or eject then you swap out to the next lightest spring. Repeat the firing til you have a spring that works consistently.
That is what you do with the calibration pak.
Fumbler said:
"Fitting of these springs is required" is simply something manufactureers say to cover their butts. It means that you are responsible for correctly installing the springs.
There is probably a grain of truth to that. It is possible that the heaviest spring of the set that allows reliable functioning is too light to prevent unnecessary frame battering. I imagine that spring-fitting gurus have ways of tweaking springs for optimum results.

Rated springs for standard guns generally come in one-pound increments, so the heaviest one that works probably won't be too far from optimum. With the generic longslide springs, things might not work out that way.
 
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JoeHatley beat me with the link to the homebrew spring tester.
Here is a link to a picture of the no longer made SDM spring tester.

Same idea. One pulls the spring into compression, the other pushes it. Either one would be fairly easy to fabricate.
 
Brownells says that at full recoil, the "stroke" of a 5" 1911 compresses the spring to 1.625. Commander is 1.125, Officers' .700. No reference to a 6" but Deb at the Custom Shop should be able to get it for you if you e-mail her.

Homebrew recoil spring tester.

1/4" thread-all bar, long enough to hold the spring plus the width of your vise jaws
2 fender washers
a stop nut for the end of the bar
a turnbuckle or eye hook screw-on for the other end
a fish guage from Dick's or somewhere ($5 - $8)

Put a stop nut on the end, then a fender washer, load the spring, then another washer and end with the turnbuckle. set it in a vise so that the washers and spring are on one side and the turnbuckle on the other. Pull it through with the fish guage until it compresses to the desired length - read the poundage.

It's easiest to make a few colored marks on the bar at the relevant compression lengths. Also, to keep the spring from snagging, put 2 wraps of wide, clear packaging tape around the thread-all, after it has been marked.

It's as accurate as the fish guage allows - quite satisfactory as tested on all new springs I've bought.
/Bryan
 
This doesnt answer your question, and will result in another that I cant answer.

I remember seeing a recoil spring plug, specificly for longslides, that was about an inch too long, and the hole were the spring went was bored an inch too shallow. Since I just confused myself, I'll carify a little...

It was a spring plug for 6" 1911s that required the use of 5" recoil springs.

Where'd I see it? Well, that would be the question I cant answer. Sorry.
 
Thank you all.

It seems that combined I have the information I need.

Frame battering is a concern of mine (especially on the Omega) but if I stay
close to spec it should all work well. I can do a bit more experimentation on
the V-16.

I'm glad there is a place like this to find such information.

Canuck-IL, do you know Deb's e-mail address off hand?

Thanks again
Richard
 
how about using one of those scales for weighing fish (the kind that has the hook to go into the gills and lets the fish hang...).They are cheap, and it seems like they would work pretty well..Looks just like the spring tester in HammerBite's link.I'm willing to bet they are darn near identical, but when they market it for a gun, they jack up the price compared to the same thing markted for weighing fish..things like that tend to be the norm.
 
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