Taurus_9mm
Member
Since I don't currently own a .44 Magnum, I don't think I'd feel underwhelmed with my .500 Mag.
Meat Eaters vs Magnum Revolvers
- Thread starter dagger dog
- Start date
- Status
Can you shoot the .500 one-handed, in a less-than-ideal position, as in not standing on flat concrete at the gun range?
I'm betting that anyone who can is big enough to fight the bear with his fists.
There is such thing as "too much gun" if you think about it, even for big bears.
I'm betting that anyone who can is big enough to fight the bear with his fists.
There is such thing as "too much gun" if you think about it, even for big bears.
MCgunner
Member
Some of you folks just need to stay in the city. You're far too paranoid to be in the woods. 
And, heck, in the city, you're far more likely to need that shotgun you insist on totin' around.
Ah, I loved "Conan the Barbarian".
And, heck, in the city, you're far more likely to need that shotgun you insist on totin' around.Ah, I loved "Conan the Barbarian".
wyocarp
Member
Sure. It isn't that tough. I'm not bragging, but they aren't as bad as most make them out to be.
You don't live where there are such animals so it is easy for you to man up. When I had my brother from Texas come up hunting, he was just as paranoid as one could be.
MCgunner
Member
I've spent time in the New Mexico mountains. I used to go out there quite a lot and have done some hunting up there, but love hiking the mountains. No, there aren't any griz up there. Lots of cats, lots of black bear, no griz. Ben Lily wiped 'em all out. I still ain't totin' a shotgun on a back pack trip, not in griz country, either. Now, maybe if I was walking the tundra in polar bear country, I'd tote a magnum rifle, but it's too danged cold up there for a Texas boy. I don't like bitter cold. It's below 32 and I'm in the house with the heater on. LOL
MCgunner
Member
I'll relate one story, friend of mine that shoots a lot of nature photography ( http://www.jameshersey.com -- Jim's site). He was in Guadalupe Mountains Nat'l Park hiking McKitrick canyon when he looked back down the trail and there was a small mountain lion stalking him within about 25 yards. Jim was unarmed, of course, and froze. He hd a tripod in his hand and said he just charged the cat while swinging that and the cat ran off. He said it was a young cat. Young cats will play, ya know. But, even if he's just using you for a ball of yarn, a mountain lion can put a hurt on you. Jim acted agressive, was bigger than the cat, the cat was intimidated.
Now, down here, we have very few lion, lots of bobcat, but few or no lion. They've been spotted, know a guy that saw one, TWO on separate occasions actually, but they're very rare.
Now, down here, we have very few lion, lots of bobcat, but few or no lion. They've been spotted, know a guy that saw one, TWO on separate occasions actually, but they're very rare.
Word is, if a Brownie sees you as a threat to his territory or her cubs, you can't scare the thing off with a tripod.
OTOH I've talked to people who have had bad-breath-close encounters with bears in Alaska, and the bears just looked at them for a while and walked off calmly.
I still want to know if someone has tried shooting a .500 one-handed, in the body position you'd be in if you were surprised in camp. Especially one of the snubbies.
It's true that Alaskans carry rifles. OTOH the ones I talked to can get 16 subsistence deer tags plus whatever "sport" tags are issued. So there's always a use for a rifle. The bears influence the choice of caliber more than the choice of firearm. Judging by the favored rifle calibers, any handgun is marginal at best...
OTOH I've talked to people who have had bad-breath-close encounters with bears in Alaska, and the bears just looked at them for a while and walked off calmly.
I still want to know if someone has tried shooting a .500 one-handed, in the body position you'd be in if you were surprised in camp. Especially one of the snubbies.
It's true that Alaskans carry rifles. OTOH the ones I talked to can get 16 subsistence deer tags plus whatever "sport" tags are issued. So there's always a use for a rifle. The bears influence the choice of caliber more than the choice of firearm. Judging by the favored rifle calibers, any handgun is marginal at best...
wyocarp
Member
It's always possible to scare off a lion that has maybe been the runt, but I've been charged by lions, yes, lions with an "s", and it's a serious matter.
Give me the exact position and I'll do it. Shooting a .500 one-handed is not a problem.
By the way, if you ever talk with someone who has experience with grizzlies in Alaska and in the lower 48, they will tell you that there is a difference in their temperment. The grizz in the lower 48 are less tolerant, most likely because they generally don't have to be afraid of humans. A friend's house I'll be going to in a few minutes was a guide in Alaska and always says, Shooting bears in Alaska is like shooting cattle.
Give me the exact position and I'll do it. Shooting a .500 one-handed is not a problem.
By the way, if you ever talk with someone who has experience with grizzlies in Alaska and in the lower 48, they will tell you that there is a difference in their temperment. The grizz in the lower 48 are less tolerant, most likely because they generally don't have to be afraid of humans. A friend's house I'll be going to in a few minutes was a guide in Alaska and always says, Shooting bears in Alaska is like shooting cattle.
A rifle is ideal.
Something like a .45-70 Guide or a .338 WM, with the right bullets. With handguns, the problem most people have is with bullet selection. Sure, a .500 S&W is a frickin hand cannon, but I'd rather have a .44 mag with hard cast Buffalo Bores or Garretts than a .500 with hollow points. When it comes to bear defense, penetration is the #1 thing you need. Your bullet has got to make it to the bears vitals, and hollow points in any caliber will not reliably do that. There have been quite a few cases where people used handguns to shoot bears in self defense situations, only to have the hollow point or soft point bullets lodge under the skin somewhere, or get stuck in a rib, or something. Read the Alaska Bear Tales books.
On a side note, a guy my friend worked with killed a brown bear near the Russian River (Kenai Peninsula, AK) with a Ruger 9mm with FMJ rounds. It was stupid on his part, he overreacted and shot the bear, which I don't believe was really a threat, I think he just wanted to shoot something :banghead: (he's lucky he didn't just pi$$ it off). Some of you Alaska guys may have heard about this, it was probably 5 or 6 years ago. So I recommend the 9mm with 115gr FMJ for bear protection!
Something like a .45-70 Guide or a .338 WM, with the right bullets. With handguns, the problem most people have is with bullet selection. Sure, a .500 S&W is a frickin hand cannon, but I'd rather have a .44 mag with hard cast Buffalo Bores or Garretts than a .500 with hollow points. When it comes to bear defense, penetration is the #1 thing you need. Your bullet has got to make it to the bears vitals, and hollow points in any caliber will not reliably do that. There have been quite a few cases where people used handguns to shoot bears in self defense situations, only to have the hollow point or soft point bullets lodge under the skin somewhere, or get stuck in a rib, or something. Read the Alaska Bear Tales books.
On a side note, a guy my friend worked with killed a brown bear near the Russian River (Kenai Peninsula, AK) with a Ruger 9mm with FMJ rounds. It was stupid on his part, he overreacted and shot the bear, which I don't believe was really a threat, I think he just wanted to shoot something :banghead: (he's lucky he didn't just pi$$ it off). Some of you Alaska guys may have heard about this, it was probably 5 or 6 years ago. So I recommend the 9mm with 115gr FMJ for bear protection!
MCgunner
Member
If I ever get to go to Alaska, I'll take a rifle. Meanwhile, I'll back pack with a handgun at most, well, unless I'm hunting. I don't have a proper caliber for Alaska, though, I guess. My favorite is a .308. I have a 7 mag, but I understand .600 Nitro Express ain't too much up there. I think a little BAR in .325 WSM would be kinda neat if I had the need.
I don't have a proper caliber for Alaska, though, I guess. My favorite is a .308. I have a 7 mag, but I understand .600 Nitro Express ain't too much up there. I think a little BAR in .325 WSM would be kinda neat if I had the need.Wolfeye
Member
In regards to the original post... I'm one of those guys who thinks .357/.44 is enough gun for hiking. I'm not an expert on the topic of handguns in the woods, but I've built my own opinions about it based on experience, which is all any of us can really say.
I grew up in SE AK, and I hiked a lot, mostly off-trail. I've only seen one bear despite having come across countless bear sign. I've come close to two packs of wild dogs, and they were a lot more roudy than wolves I've seen - they have no fear of humans at all. I've been shot at once that I know of.
What I've learned is 1) if you're hiking, fishing, or doing any number of outdoors activities, it's a pain to carry a longarm all the time, especially if the outdoors is in your backyard. Any gun that takes two hands or is over 3 lbs is going to be left at home or back in the car or boat. 2) Violent run-ins with animals that you'd need a rifle to stop almost never happen. Attacks are mostly urban legends that happened to friends of friends. 3) Humans are the most dangerous animals you can meet out in the woods, and also the least predictable, especially when drunk. Dogs come next.
I don't worry much about bears. I deal with the issue now by avoiding areas with large bear populations, if possible.
If I'm not tromping through the woods or using both hands for something, I will on occassion carry a hunting rifle. Generally, though, what I trust the most are the revolvers that don't leave my side when I'm out there.
I grew up in SE AK, and I hiked a lot, mostly off-trail. I've only seen one bear despite having come across countless bear sign. I've come close to two packs of wild dogs, and they were a lot more roudy than wolves I've seen - they have no fear of humans at all. I've been shot at once that I know of.
What I've learned is 1) if you're hiking, fishing, or doing any number of outdoors activities, it's a pain to carry a longarm all the time, especially if the outdoors is in your backyard. Any gun that takes two hands or is over 3 lbs is going to be left at home or back in the car or boat. 2) Violent run-ins with animals that you'd need a rifle to stop almost never happen. Attacks are mostly urban legends that happened to friends of friends. 3) Humans are the most dangerous animals you can meet out in the woods, and also the least predictable, especially when drunk. Dogs come next.
I don't worry much about bears. I deal with the issue now by avoiding areas with large bear populations, if possible.
If I'm not tromping through the woods or using both hands for something, I will on occassion carry a hunting rifle. Generally, though, what I trust the most are the revolvers that don't leave my side when I'm out there.
Last edited:
WardenWolf
member
There's always the .454 Casull if you feel .44 Magnum isn't quite enough. If I were hiking in bear country, I'd prefer a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan. The full size Super Redhawk is fine, too, but it's a bit too much.
Like Wolfeye, I agree if going into bear country I would carry my 12 gauge with slugs or my marlin 4570. HOWEVER 80% of the time I spend in the woods the only firearm I carry is my handgun (10mm/44mag/your favorite caliber here,etc). Why because carrying a rifle/shotgun while fishing, hiking, family outings, search & rescue, etc is not generally not needed. I am more worried about two legged beers(yes I spelled it correctly), coy dogs and the like then bears (four legged).
What needs to be remembered is that a handgun is a compromise. It is not the ideal tool for protection against large predators, but it can be carried at all times with minimal inconvenience. You can choose a handgun with adequate power to give you a fighting chance in a close encounter with a large predator (probably the last thing it will be needed for) while at the same time being more than adequate for encounters with lesser 4 legged and 2 legged threats. The choice of caliber will depend greatly upon where it is you are recreating and the type of threat in that area. My personal opinion is that it is better to have a gun and not need it than to need it and not have it. In a lot of instances it just isn’t practical to carry a rifle or a shotgun and they can be a real nuisance when not hunting. The right handgun is always with you. It may not be the ideal tool in all situations, but in the hands of those who have familiarized themselves with the gun and understand its weaknesses, it can be very comforting and useful.
I live in the Montana and am out almost every day, all year long, walking the dogs, hunting, fishing, or just general woods bumming. My all day, everyday carry gun (except when handgun hunting) is a S&W 329 PD (Ti/Sc .44 Mag) – the perfect power to weight ratio for my purposes. I never leave home without it.
Paul
I live in the Montana and am out almost every day, all year long, walking the dogs, hunting, fishing, or just general woods bumming. My all day, everyday carry gun (except when handgun hunting) is a S&W 329 PD (Ti/Sc .44 Mag) – the perfect power to weight ratio for my purposes. I never leave home without it.
Paul
22-rimfire
Member
I look forward to seeing bears in the woods. I have only seen a few in the woods. I agree with Wolfeye about handgun choice. People are still the biggest danger. I'll stick with my 41 mag, or I may just carry a 22 revolver.
I enjoyed the comments about the old thread brought back from the dead and using the search function but at least it was only a year old unlike some.
I enjoyed the comments about the old thread brought back from the dead and using the search function but at least it was only a year old unlike some.
wyocarp
Member
But they need to hike quicker so that they get around corners and to the top of hills first.
earlthegoat2
Member
Of the dozen or so bear encounters I have had in Washington State, British Colombia, and Alaska over a course of 4 years (when I was in the military) I only had one that was what I would call serious. It was a grizzly in BC. I had my bear spray in my left hand that was steadying the forend of the 45-70 Marlin rifle I had shouldered at a range of about 9 feet. I looked at him and he looked at me and my hunting partner who had a 444 Marlin shouldered as well. The bear went one direction and we went another. I swear I could smell his BO. Never should have sold that Marlin.
NotSoFast
Member
My shipmate bought a .44 magnum after being treed by javelinas and seeing his rifle laying at the foot of the tree where he had to drop it in order to climb out of reach of their razor sharp tusks. He was stuck up there until his brother heard the commotion and came to his rescue.
Sometimes having something that you can use when you can't get to your best option is comforting.
Sometimes having something that you can use when you can't get to your best option is comforting.
In my mind when someone says 'Bear Country' I ask, "Black or Brown?"
There's a huge difference. Most Brown are in Alaska (95%) in the
Americas... there's a lot in Russia. Black Bear are more widespread and hence why there are more Black Bear attacks. I'll unlikely
ever see a Brown bear in person where I live, which is SoCal.
Mountain Lions and Black Bear are what I have here.
The average Black Bear in SoCal is about 210 lbs but can
get up to 400 lbs. A Mountain Lion maxes out at around 230 lbs.
In either case it's more likely I get attacked in the wilds of downtown
LA then out in a National Park. But for all 3 types of problems (human, bear, lion) I have one solution. .357 Magnum. I have 180 grain
Cast Lead traveling with about 700 ft-lbs. of force for the animals.
And various hollowpoints for the criminals.
Oh, I know I should get some kind of hand cannon for the
animals but I figure I can get 6 quick shots off with the .357.
More likely then not I may miss with the first shot, being nervous
and all, so I hope I get him with the next. What I don't want is to
deal with the recoil of a 454 Casull and be flinching each
time I fire it off.... or even a .44 Magnum for that matter.
Of course if I knew I was going to come in contact with a bear
I'd want an M1 Garand. 8 quick shots of 30-06 is nothing to sneeze at.
There's a huge difference. Most Brown are in Alaska (95%) in the
Americas... there's a lot in Russia. Black Bear are more widespread and hence why there are more Black Bear attacks. I'll unlikely
ever see a Brown bear in person where I live, which is SoCal.
Mountain Lions and Black Bear are what I have here.
The average Black Bear in SoCal is about 210 lbs but can
get up to 400 lbs. A Mountain Lion maxes out at around 230 lbs.
In either case it's more likely I get attacked in the wilds of downtown
LA then out in a National Park. But for all 3 types of problems (human, bear, lion) I have one solution. .357 Magnum. I have 180 grain
Cast Lead traveling with about 700 ft-lbs. of force for the animals.
And various hollowpoints for the criminals.
Oh, I know I should get some kind of hand cannon for the
animals but I figure I can get 6 quick shots off with the .357.
More likely then not I may miss with the first shot, being nervous
and all, so I hope I get him with the next. What I don't want is to
deal with the recoil of a 454 Casull and be flinching each
time I fire it off.... or even a .44 Magnum for that matter.
Of course if I knew I was going to come in contact with a bear
I'd want an M1 Garand. 8 quick shots of 30-06 is nothing to sneeze at.
fourdollarbill
Member
I prefer a boat gun for bears. I'm absolutely certain it will work!
ChCx2744
Member
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,228
Someone mentioned earlier "are you going to carry around a heavy rifle/shotgun everywhere you go while camping/hunting?"
Yes. I don't care if it is heavy or a burden. Whenever we go hunting, everyone has a long gun, PERIOD. The only other things we bring are our GPS locators, knives and Epi-pins (I dunno if that is how you spell it) and some other little nourishments in our packs. Of course everyone is armed with a handgun just in case, but trust me, nobody I mean NOBODY will be using a handgun if we have to engage ANYTHING with more than 2 legs. Don't get me wrong, I may be the only person who is HELL BENT on hunting in groups. I will NEVER, EVER hunt/hike alone. EVER.
A bear may be able to get the drop on one of us, but there will be more than one of US and I gaurantee someone will ruin that 4-legged sack of meat's world. I've only seen 2 bears with my own eyes in my life, and they were both little black bears that couldn't have weighed more than 150 lbs; we threw cough drops at them and they bolted.
Yes. I don't care if it is heavy or a burden. Whenever we go hunting, everyone has a long gun, PERIOD. The only other things we bring are our GPS locators, knives and Epi-pins (I dunno if that is how you spell it) and some other little nourishments in our packs. Of course everyone is armed with a handgun just in case, but trust me, nobody I mean NOBODY will be using a handgun if we have to engage ANYTHING with more than 2 legs. Don't get me wrong, I may be the only person who is HELL BENT on hunting in groups. I will NEVER, EVER hunt/hike alone. EVER.
A bear may be able to get the drop on one of us, but there will be more than one of US and I gaurantee someone will ruin that 4-legged sack of meat's world. I've only seen 2 bears with my own eyes in my life, and they were both little black bears that couldn't have weighed more than 150 lbs; we threw cough drops at them and they bolted.
People get so up tight when it come to topics like this. We always have the guys that think a shotgun or rifle is the only answer. Hell there are a lot of people that don't take any guns at all, but that is there choice.
I think everyone knows a rifle or shotgun is probably one of the best to carry, but a person with a lot of handgun experience are just as capable of defending themselves in bear country with a big bore revolver.
There are situation were a long gun is just not practical, such as in a tent or doing chores in camp. A handgun is always on your side or holsters for easy access.
If you were ever in the situation of a bear on top of you, a rifle or shotgun is useless, being able to get to a handgun is a better option in my opinion. Depending on the type of bear also dictates the size of the handgun one should carry, but a 375 Mag should never even be considered in bear country.
I have a 2 1/2 inch 454 Casull and a 4 inch 500 Mag that I carry while in bear country, or when I am hunting in bear country. When I hunted in Alaska, I carried my 300 Win Mag and my 454 Casull on my hip.
When I go black bear hunting, I only carry my handguns, because that is what I hunt with for black bear.
ArmedBear, I have shot my 4 inch 500 Mag a bunch of times one handed. I have practiced one hand shooting from different positions, but I never practiced with a bear on top of me, kind of hard to find a willing bear to play along.
But the only thing I find about these threads is, people have time to think about what they think they would do in case of a bear attack, the truth is, no one really know what they will do until it happens. So we can sit here and try to talk big and tell others what is best, and what we would do, but the truth be known, you can only prepare and HOPE you do the right thing to survive such an encounter.
I think everyone knows a rifle or shotgun is probably one of the best to carry, but a person with a lot of handgun experience are just as capable of defending themselves in bear country with a big bore revolver.
There are situation were a long gun is just not practical, such as in a tent or doing chores in camp. A handgun is always on your side or holsters for easy access.
If you were ever in the situation of a bear on top of you, a rifle or shotgun is useless, being able to get to a handgun is a better option in my opinion. Depending on the type of bear also dictates the size of the handgun one should carry, but a 375 Mag should never even be considered in bear country.
I have a 2 1/2 inch 454 Casull and a 4 inch 500 Mag that I carry while in bear country, or when I am hunting in bear country. When I hunted in Alaska, I carried my 300 Win Mag and my 454 Casull on my hip.
When I go black bear hunting, I only carry my handguns, because that is what I hunt with for black bear.
ArmedBear, I have shot my 4 inch 500 Mag a bunch of times one handed. I have practiced one hand shooting from different positions, but I never practiced with a bear on top of me, kind of hard to find a willing bear to play along.
But the only thing I find about these threads is, people have time to think about what they think they would do in case of a bear attack, the truth is, no one really know what they will do until it happens. So we can sit here and try to talk big and tell others what is best, and what we would do, but the truth be known, you can only prepare and HOPE you do the right thing to survive such an encounter.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked