Metal peircing ammo

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moooose102

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I found a box of metal peircing ammo online, it says on the box that is is for law enforcment use, but it is an old box. I was wondering about a civilian having that in michigan. Any ideas as to the legality of this?
 
750.224c Armor piercing ammunition; manufacture, distribution, sale, or use prohibited; exceptions;
violation as felony; penalty; definitions; exemption of projectile or projectile core; rule.
Sec. 224c. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not manufacture, distribute, sell, or use armor piercing
ammunition in this state. A person who willfully violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for
not more than 4 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.
(2) This section does not apply to either of the following:
(a) A person who manufactures, distributes, sells, or uses armor piercing ammunition in this state, if that manufacture,
distribution, sale, or use is not in violation of chapter 44 of title 18 of the United States Code.
(b) A licensed dealer who sells or distributes armor piercing ammunition in violation of this section if the licensed dealer
is subject to license revocation under chapter 44 of title 18 of the United States Code for that sale or distribution.
(3) As used in this section:(a) “Armor piercing ammunition” means a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a pistol and which is
constructed entirely, excluding the presence of traces of other substances, of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze,
beryllium copper, or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, or beryllium copper. Armor piercing
ammunition does not include any of the following:
(i) Shotgun shot that is required by federal law or by a law of this state to be used for hunting purposes.
(ii) A frangible projectile designed for target shooting.
(iii) A projectile that the director of the department of state police finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting
purposes.
(iv) A projectile or projectile core that the director of the department of state police finds is intended to be used for
industrial purposes.
(b) “Licensed dealer” means a person licensed under chapter 44 of title 18 of the United States Code to deal in firearms or
ammunition.
(4) The director of the department of state police shall exempt a projectile or projectile core under subsection (3)(a)(iii) or
(iv) if that projectile or projectile core is exempted under chapter 44 of title 18 of the United States Code. The director of
state police shall exempt a projectile or projectile core under subsection (3)(a)(iii) or (iv) only by a rule promulgated in
compliance with the administrative procedures act of 1969, Act No. 306 of the Public Acts of 1969, being sections 24.201 to
24.328 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
History: Add. 1990, Act 318, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991.


Sorry for the legal dissortation...Don't get it in MI unless your attorney needs to make a new mortgage payment.
 
It has to be illegal on the Federal level for it to be illegal in MI:

750.224c Armor piercing ammunition; manufacture, distribution, sale, or use prohibited; exceptions;
violation as felony; penalty; definitions; exemption of projectile or projectile core; rule.
Sec. 224c. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not manufacture, distribute, sell, or use armor piercing
ammunition in this state. A person who willfully violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for
not more than 4 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.
(2) This section does not apply to either of the following:
(a) A person who manufactures, distributes, sells, or uses armor piercing ammunition in this state, if that manufacture,
distribution, sale, or use is not in violation of chapter 44 of title 18 of the United States Code.
 
Armor piercing ammunition; manufacture, distribution, sale, or use prohibited;

i dont see anything about owning. so id say its perfectly legal to buy it, just not to sell or use it.
 
Huh? All ammo can pierce metal.
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If that were the case I would expect that out indoor range backstop would be peppered with holes.
black talon...
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This ammo was never considered AP ammo. Political considerations forced Winchester to change the bullet slightly.
 
^^ No joke.Holy Cripes lets not perpetuate that Black Talon BS.

By the way my red ryder can penetrate metal with bb's, the empty soda can in my basement is the proof.
 
I'm sorry, I never meant to even hint that Black Talon was AP. I just was using that as an example of a "model" or brand name of ammo if you will. I know it's not AP.
 
rscalzo said:
If that were the case I would expect that out indoor range backstop would be peppered with holes.
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"Can" is not the same as "will." Any round has the capability to pierce metal, if the metal is thin enough and the round hits at a right angle to the metal surface.
 
If that were the case I would expect that out indoor range backstop would be peppered with holes.
Click to expand...

Depends on the metal. I bet some primer-only .22s can pierce a soda can.
 
no, it is old winchester (yellow box) 45acp. the nose of the bullet looks weird, like it has extra heavy nose jacket, or maybe a steel insert under the copper jacket. it does not say armor peircing on the box. the only legal thing i was worried about is it says "for law encforcement only" use on the box.
 
If that were the case I would expect that out indoor range backstop would be peppered with holes.
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Metal is a vague term. It could mean anything from the side of a soda can to the side of an Abrams tank. The type of metal and the thickness of the metal weren't mentioned, so "metal piercing" means nothing. My finger can easily pierce tin foil, and that's metal. So my finger is metal piercing, but that doesn't make it armor piercing.

Metal is a general term for everything from aluminum to titanium. It's kind of like saying "this bullet is designed for hunting mammals", but not specifying if the bullet was designed for mice or elephants.

the only legal thing i was worried about is it says "for law enforcement only" use on the box.
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Depends on your state laws, but I highly doubt that means anything. It's the manufacturer's way to cover their a**es from lawsuits.
 
Depends on your state laws, but I highly doubt that means anything. It's the manufacturer's way to cover their a**es from lawsuits
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And to hype sales. What you have, I would guess, is Winchester Ranger ammo which is perfectly legal. Nothing special about it at all. Anyway, anything by Winchester would be legal (except to carry loaded in New Jersey for self defense, but that's a whole different "state of affairs")
 
This ammo was never considered AP ammo.
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Exactly. "Metal piercing" does not equal "armor piercing." Apples and oranges. Here is a photo of 70's vintage Winchester "Metal Piercing" ammo - it was designed for LE use to shoot through glass or thin sheet metal. It is NOT, but modern definition, "armor piercing" (not steel cored, etc.). I am guessing this is what you are talking about.

The only really unique thing about it is the shape. It is not a violation in any state I know of. Lots of ammo labeled "for Law Enforcement use only" is just what NavyLT said, hype to make you buy it. I believe Winchester Silver Tip carried that for many years, even though it was sold over the counter everywhere.

1) c.1970 S&W 27 and metal piercing ammunition:
IMGP3140.jpg
 
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I picked up a several hundred rounds of IMI 5.56 M855 steel penetrator for my AR a while back. Haven't had a chance to test its "armor piercing" capabilities yet. Need to go out to a friends land some time and give it a test run.

IMG_0041720.jpg

Supposedly it isn't very armor piercing, but the steel core is supposed to assist with penetrating metal. Not sure how good a job it does as I have read a number of things that say it doesn't do that well. Like I said, have to test it myself one of these days.
 
All my mosin ammo is steel core and will pierce body armor.. hope the ATF isn't looking at this:neener:

You are good no worries
 
All my mosin ammo is steel core and will pierce body armor.. hope the ATF isn't looking at this
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Just a clarification. Body armor is not a standard unit of measure when talking about 'armor-piercing' ammo. Many non-armor-piercing rounds will penetrate body armor, handgun and rifle.
 
Just a clarification. Body armor is not a standard unit of measure when talking about 'armor-piercing' ammo. Many non-armor-piercing rounds will penetrate body armor, handgun and rifle
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That is correct. What the "armor piercing" designation means in military applications is to penetrate vehicle armor as in an up-armored hummvee or armored personnel carrier.

The anti's have applied that designation to ammo which is likely to penetrate body armor which is comparing apples to oranges.
 
Remember, what is not "cop killer" armor piercing is "dum dum" expanding soft lead, hollowpoint, or softnose jacketed bullets. To anti-gunners there is a bad word for ALL bullet types and styles and an excuse to ban everything from .22 Short (used in Saturday Night Specials) to .50 BMG (used to shoot down airliners).
 
I had some of that W-W Metal Piercing ammo back in the early 70's. It penitrated a 1/4 inch steel plate that was left over from our range's backstop easily.

The term is too vauge to really mean much. To say a bullet will penitrate a thin sheet of alum. doesn't make it "metal piercing" when common sense is applied. To say so would open up ammo manufacturers to all sorts of govt. issues.
 
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