mi 30" law

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plunge

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in michigan a pistol is defined as:
“Pistol” means a loaded or unloaded firearm that is 30 inches or less in length, or a loaded or unloaded firearm that by its
construction and appearance conceals it as a firearm

i bought a cmmg 22lr upper for an AR. i plan on building a lower receiver for it when i get home from deployment and am going to use a folding stock on it. i'm pretty sure that will put it under 30" but over 26"(michigan measures collapsed or folded). so i will have to get it "safety inspected" as a pistol. the problem i'm having is that the range i usually go shooting at is in WI. i can't find WI gun laws online like i can MI. i think it would probably be considered a rifle in WI, but i'm not positive. if it's a rifle in WI will i have any problem bringing a MI pistol across state lines to shoot in WI? i'm confused by these dumb laws. just wondering what your opinions would be on this. thanks
 
It will be a rifle in WI. Michigan law doesn't apply to Wisconsin. Just keep it cased, separated from ammo, ect until you get to your shooting spot. Also, apparently there is no more safety inspection, you just send the form in.
 
As macross said, there is no more saftey inspection, just a form you fill out (RI-60) and mail in.

When you buy the lower, tell the gun shop it's for a pistol and they should have a four part form for you to fill out. They keep one, you keep one, and you mail two in to your police department (then they send one on to the MSP.) If you do not have a CPL you will have to get the purchase permit from the local PD.

I am a little less clear on the procedure if you buy the lower as a rifle and then convert it to a "MI Pistol." It seems that when you build the "MI Pistol" on your lower purchased as a rifle, all you need to do is fill out the RI-60 with you as the seller and buyer. I'm not sure if you need a purchase permit in this case.

Here is a link to the State of Michigan's RI-60.
 
Actually, you have to get the 4 part form and BG check done at the local LE station. Then a NICS check at the LGS when you purchase the weapon. The FFL, or private seller, fills out their portion of the card and keeps one for their records. you keep one for your records, and the other two go to the local LE station and the final goes to MSP.


If you buy a stripped lower it'll go through your local FFL. If you then put on the folding stock, the FFL transfer is already done. Ask your local FFL if you need to do a pistol purchase permit when you buy the stripper receiver, but I don't think you'll need to. If you buy a full receiver, with folding stock already equipped, it'll have to be a pistol permit purchase.

If it is considered a rifle in WI, taking it across state lines should not be an issue. I'm assuming you live in the UP? Bringing it back into MI shouldn't be an issue either, just make sure you are transporting it legally.
 
Unistat said:
When you buy the lower, tell the gun shop it's for a pistol
Click to expand...

This has me wondering, I know under federal law it is a long gun, and under Michigan law a long gun is considered a pistol if it is under 30", so it is a pistol.
So if you tell the FFL it is a pistol, and they mark pistol on the federal paperwork, but it is in fact a rifle, isn't something wrong there? Selling a rifle, defined as being fired from the shoulder under federal law, as a pistol. Wouldn't the FFL be improperly filling out the federal forms?


A separate issue from the OP, but it just had me curious. How many FFLs in that situation mess up and put pistol on the federal paperwork, because it is a pistol under state law?
It probably shouldn't be a big concern since the ATF interpretation is that a pistol can be turned into a long gun, just not the reverse. Meaning even if it was sold as a pistol federally it could become a long gun at the federal level, and remain a "pistol" at the state level, but it has me curious anyways.

Do FFLs in that state routinely get used to marking rifle on one set of forms and pistol on the other set of forms for the same firearm? Or do they accidentally mark pistol for both when they have to go through the state process for transferring a pistol and think of the gun as a pistol?
 
USAF_Vet said:
Actually, you have to get the 4 part form and BG check done at the local LE station...
Click to expand...

The PD does do a background check when you get a purchase permit, but the purchse permit and the registration form (RI-60) are two different things.

Everytime I have bought a pistol since the "saftey inspection" was done away with, the gun shop or private dealer had the RI-60. I don't see how you can get the RI-60 from the PD. It's supposed to be filled out by the seller.
 
Zoogster said:
This has me wondering, I know under federal law it is a long gun, and under Michigan law a long gun is considered a pistol if it is under 30", so it is a pistol.
So if you tell the FFL it is a pistol, and they mark pistol on the federal paperwork, but it is in fact a rifle, isn't something wrong there? Selling a rifle, defined as being fired from the shoulder under federal law, as a pistol. Wouldn't the FFL be improperly filling out the federal forms?


A separate issue from the OP, but it just had me curious. How many FFLs in that situation mess up and put pistol on the federal paperwork, because it is a pistol under state law?
It probably shouldn't be a big concern since the ATF interpretation is that a pistol can be turned into a long gun, just not the reverse. Meaning even if it was sold as a pistol federally it could become a long gun at the federal level, and remain a "pistol" at the state level, but it has me curious anyways.

Do FFLs in that state routinely get used to marking rifle on one set of forms and pistol on the other set of forms for the same firearm? Or do they accidentally mark pistol for both when they have to go through the state process for transferring a pistol and think of the gun as a pistol?
Click to expand...

I would be sure I was 100% crystal clear with my FFL that it was a MI pistol only and that the Federal paperwork should be filled out as a rifle. That way I could put a vertical fore-grip on it if I wanted.
 
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what exactly is the RI-60? last pistol i bought i had to fill out a yellow form and the dealer did, then bring it to the sherrifs dept. is that what you are talking about? i am planning on telling the ffl that it is for a rifle because federally it will be a rifle, but only michigan it will be a pistol. i guess i'm not really sure what paperwork needs to be done when i "build" a pistol. thanks
 
plunge said:
what exactly is the RI-60? last pistol i bought i had to fill out a yellow form and the dealer did, then bring it to the sherrifs dept. is that what you are talking about? i am planning on telling the ffl that it is for a rifle because federally it will be a rifle, but only michigan it will be a pistol. i guess i'm not really sure what paperwork needs to be done when i "build" a pistol. thanks
Click to expand...

Yes, the yellow form is the RI-60. It doesn't have to be yellow, that was just because your FFL had a four part carbon form. The link I posted above has all four parts on one sheet of paper. You fill the whole thing out and cut it up. I've done it with both types of forms.

Do you have a CPL? If so, that will make the whole thing a lot less complicated.
 
i don't have it yet. when i get home i'm going to tho. thanks, i didnt know that was a link, sorry. so i just fill that out afterwards and put myself as the purchaser and seller and it'll be all good i guess. i can't wait to have my "pistol" finished
 
MarkDozier said:
Say hello to my little friend. GOOGLE

http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/a/gunlaws_wi.htm

http://www.lcav.org/states/wisconsin.asp

Read the words and become enlightened grasshopper.

Better you should worry about the definition that the GCA applies to your future toy then what a state thinks it is.
Click to expand...
how would the GCA affect this build? it'll be over 26" plus the feds measure it extended. so it's just another 22 cal ar to them. unless i am missing something
 
The PD does do a background check when you get a purchase permit, but the purchse permit and the registration form (RI-60) are two different things.

Everytime I have bought a pistol since the "saftey inspection" was done away with, the gun shop or private dealer had the RI-60. I don't see how you can get the RI-60 from the PD. It's supposed to be filled out by the seller.
Click to expand...

I got my at the SD when I had my BG check. They filled out their parts of it on all four, the FFL filled out their part during sale, and I signed and returned the two parts post sale.

Having the LE office supply the RI-60 makes sense, since you've got to go there to begin with for the BG check, test, etc.
Not saying that a FFL won't have the RI-60, just that I got mine at the SD.

GCA?
Click to expand...
Gun Control Act of 1969.

how would the GCA affect this build? it'll be over 26" plus the feds measure it extended. so it's just another 22 cal ar to them. unless i am missing something
Click to expand...

GCA Should have no effect on your build. The 30" thing is a Michigan law in regards to purchase, but it is still considered a rifle in every other aspect. It's back door gun registration for so-called 'assault weapons.'
 
USAF_Vet said:
I got my at the SD when I had my BG check. They filled out their parts of it on all four, the FFL filled out their part during sale, and I signed and returned the two parts post sale.

Having the LE office supply the RI-60 makes sense, since you've got to go there to begin with for the BG check, test, etc.
Not saying that a FFL won't have the RI-60, just that I got mine at the SD.
Click to expand...

Huh, interesting. I've not had to get a purchase permit since the registration law changed, so I don't even go to the PD anymore. I didn't realize that they even offered the RI-60 there. Half the reason I got a CPL was to make buying guns less of a pain in the neck.
 
So how does this affect the shooter that buys a rifle that comes from the factory with an A2 buttstock, and the OAL is over 30" but then the shooter later decides to put a collapsible stock on, or an entry style fixed stock that brings the OAL down below 30"?
 
Rail Driver said:
So how does this affect the shooter that buys a rifle that comes from the factory with an A2 buttstock, and the OAL is over 30" but then the shooter later decides to put a collapsible stock on, or an entry style fixed stock that brings the OAL down below 30"?
Click to expand...

They register the rifle as a pistol (for Michigan.)

There is some legistlation floating around to change MI pistols to meet the Federal definition. The thing is there is resistance from some gun owners. This is because you may not carry a loaded long arm in your car in Michigan, but you can carry a loaded pistol with a CPL (Concealed Pistol License.) So an AK carbine with a folding stock may be legally carried loaded and ready to rock anywhere in your car (provided you have the CPL.).
 
IIRC on the federal forms a stripped receiver is niether a rifle or pistol. The 4473 is marked "other" for a frame only. It only becomes a rifle or pistol after assembly. Again this is federal procedure for filling out the 4473.
 
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