Michigan pistol over 26" OAL

[smalls]

Family friend of ours went to Gander to buy an AR 10, but all they had was out of his price range. So instead he walked out with a Sig AR pistol. Can't remember exactly which model, but for the purpose of this thread, all we need to know is that it's OAL was over 26".

He gets a call from Gander the next morning saying he needs to return the gun. They tell him it wasn't legal for them to sell him a pistol over 26", and said he'd probably have some legal issues if he went to register it with the local PD. They gave him the rifle he wanted for what he paid for the pistol, and threw in some ammo, so he wasn't really upset.

But I called BS on that law. I'd never heard of it, and with AR pistols being all the new rage, it must've come up once or twice on the forums or at the gunshop.

So I did some digging, and found ( http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(m4...leg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-421 )Act 372 of 1927, where section 28.421 says :

[...]
(2) A person may lawfully own, possess, carry, or transport as a pistol a firearm greater than 26 inches in length if all of the following conditions apply:

(a) The person registered the firearm as a pistol under section 2 or 2a before January 1, 2013.

(b) The person who registered the firearm as described in subdivision (a) has maintained registration of the firearm since January 1, 2013 without lapse.

(c) The person possesses a copy of the license or record issued to him or her under section 2 or 2a.

(3) A person who satisfies all of the conditions listed under subsection (2) nevertheless may elect to have the firearm not be considered to be a pistol. A person who makes the election under this subsection shall notify the department of state police of the election in a manner prescribed by that department.

Ok, so I was wrong. But at the top of the Michigan legislature page, it also says "***** 28.421 THIS SECTION IS AMENDED EFFECTIVE DECEMBER 1, 2015: See 28.421.amended *****"

I can't find the amendment, so if anyone has a link I'd greatly appreciate it.

In searching for the amendment I ran across a few forum threads on the issue. I guess a few people called the Michigan State Police on the issue, and their reply was that if a pistol's OAL was greater than 26", then in MI, it's just treated as a rifle. Meaning no registration, but no keeping it loaded in your car with CPL.

So does anyone have any insight on this? I don't own anything like this, so this is purely out curiosity.

 

[USAF_Vet]

There use d to be a thing called the Michigan Pistol long gun. Under Federal law, these were rifles and shotguns, being designed to be fired from the shoulder, over 26" OAL, and with 16" or 18" barrels, whichever applies to the firearm for legal purposes.

Michigan Legislators, in their infinite wisdom, felt the minimum over all length for a long gun should be 30" and wrote a law treating long guns that fell between 26" and 30" OAL as hand guns, requiring registration. Generally, these were guns with folding or collapsible stocks, or short carbines that still met Title I status. It targeted AK and AR carbines without outright saying so. Certain other guns were also caught up in the nonsense law. But, the loophole was, if registered as a handgun (because all Michigan has is handgun registration) you could legally transport it loaded with a CPL.

A person may lawfully own, possess, carry, or transport as a pistol a firearm greater than 26 inches in length

Meaning you could register a long gun as a pistol, transport it as a pistol, carry it as a pistol (either open or concealed), and be within the law. But, the drawback is your long gun is registered with the state police.

The registration requirement went away a couple years ago, but the database for guns already registered still exists. I've heard those guns can be deregistered and treated solely as long guns, but the ability to lawfully transport it loaded and at hand goes away. I do not believe new long guns can be registered as handguns at all anymore.

As far as I'm aware, Michigan does not have a maximum over all length for a handgun.
The registration forms would have been filled out at the retailer at the time of purchase. The onus for registration, however, still falls to the purchaser of the weapon, not the retailer.

I have an AR pistol, assembled myself, transferred to myself on an RI-060 and sent in my registration form to MSP. I've not had a letter, phone call, knock on my door or had it kicked in by SWAT.

The December 1, 2015 effective date for the amendment is for the Michigan CPL reform bill, signed into law last month.

There is no OAL measurement on the registration forms, so I don't know how MSP would know if a handgun like an AR pistol, 26"OAL+ would/ could/ should be registered as a pistol or left unregistered as a rifle (which it clearly isn't as it doesn't meet Federal definition).

 

[USAF_Vet]

Here is the link of Act 372 amended.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2013-2014/billintroduced/Senate/htm/2014-SIB-0789.htm

 

[smalls]

Right, I knew about the "Michigan Pistol" deal.

As far as I'm aware, Michigan does not have a maximum over all length for a handgun.

But that's exactly what 28.421 is saying, unless you've owned it since before 2013:

(a) The person registered the firearm as a pistol under section 2 or 2a before January 1, 2013

Thank you for providing a link to the amendment. I haven't read the whole CPL reform bill, but I don't think any of it has to do with this issue.

 

[smalls]

I'm not sure, but after reading a few threads on other sites I'm beginning to think this is some small revision snuck in, that no one ever really cared about and goes unenforced.

 

[pjeski]

There is no reason they could not sell him that weapon. If I'm reading the op right, they might have sold it as a pistol (ie RI-60). That is all the needs to be corrected. The weapon described in the op is a "firearm", and not a pistol or a rifle.

 

[USAF_Vet]

There is no reason they could not sell him that weapon. If I'm reading the op right, they might have sold it as a pistol (ie RI-60). That is all the needs to be corrected. The weapon described in the op is a "firearm", and not a pistol or a rifle.

That's probably it. That Title I classification completely slipped my mind. A hand gun 26"+ is considered an "Other Firearm" under Federal law, since it no longer has the capability of being concealed. Just like a PGO shotgun, stripped serialized frame or receiver and a few other items, it's a Firearm, not a handgun. I'm sure pjeski is correct. If Gander transferred it as a pistol and not a firearm, the paper work is incorrect and would need to be amended.

FWIW, I measured my AR pistol today, and its a hair under 26" OAL.

Thank you for providing a link to the amendment. I haven't read the whole CPL reform bill, but I don't think any of it has to do with this issue.

Smalls, Act 372 of 1927 covers the provisions for firearms. The CPL reform bill amends Act 372, specifically amends section 28.421 (among others). That was the bill and amended section you asked about in the OP. Act 372 covers much more than concealed carry, but any amendment to allow or alter the legal provisions for concealed carry do fall under this act.

I'm not sure, but after reading a few threads on other sites I'm beginning to think this is some small revision snuck in, that no one ever really cared about and goes unenforced.

This may very well be the case. We've had a lot of really dumb gun laws on the books here in the Mitten, and a lot of work has been put in over the last several years to improve those laws. It may have slipped in recently, or years ago and no one noticed, or cares. I guess I'm one of those who doesn't care, since I already carry a loaded, concealed pistol on my person in the car, I have no need or desire to have my AR pistol-type-thing close at hand as well. I could only imagine how painful it would be to fire off a 5.56 from a 10.5" barrel in the confines of my vehicle.

 

[smalls]

Wow... I can't believe that "other firearms" didn't come to mind. Now it all makes a little more sense. What it's saying is that you can't register an "other" firearm as a pistol, allowing you to carry it loaded under your CPL. But I'm assuming before you could.

And yeah, I like to think of Michigan as a pretty gun friendly state, but some of our laws just don't make any damn sense.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Yeah, I'm guessing when the Michigan Pistol Long Gun state classification went away a couple years ago, the provision to register your Firearms as a pistol went away with it. Michigan now uses the Federal Title I definitions for all guns and don't have the arbitrary state level classification.

And if HB4439 passes, it'll finally eliminate the registration requirement for all handguns.