Military sidearms through history?

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FSCJedi

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I was thinking the other day about what sidearms (pistols) were officially issued to our soldiers/officers throughout history.

If I'm not mistaken, the Harper’s Ferry .58 caliber flintlock pistol was the first (which, incidentally, are the crossed pistols on the MP coat of arms), but I'm sketchy as to what percussion revolvers were issued before the Colt Peacemaker was adopted. Likewise, what led up to the Colt 1911? Can any of you military history buffs lay out this interesting bit of history for me? :confused:
 
Colt Army Model 1860

The Colt Army Model 1860 was used by during The Civil War, as was the 1851 Navy. These are both cap and ball revolvers. I think a .38 revolver was issued before the 1911 but I'm not at all sure.
 
The Harpers Ferry pistols were actually .54 caliber. The modern replicas are .58, I guess to make use of the common caliber as .54's are a bit odd now.

There were MANY pistols bought and issued by the US Gov before the 1873 Colts came about.

Pictured are the Harpers Ferry, Colt 3rd Model Dragoons (which, like the HF, were usually issued in pairs) Colt 1851 Navy, Colt 1860 Army. Unfortunately, these are all Italian repros but you get the idea of scale and how the pistols were getting smaller and more easy to carry. The Drags weigh close to 5lb!!

There were others used and I'm sure people will fill in the blanks for you.
 

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After the percussion era, the first non-cap-n-ball revolver( one that was designed from the ground-up for self-contained cartridges, rather than the cap-n-ball conversions in .44Colt) was the S&W in .44 Russian, then the Scholfield in .45 S&W, issued to the cavalry in the western territories, shortly after, the Colt model P in .45 Colt was issued along side the Schofield, until the Schofield was taken from frontline service in about 1878, being supplanted by the Model P and finally "gov't surplused" out in about 1880 or so.
The .45 S&W was shorter and weaker than the .45Colt. the Colt Model P could fire the S&W round but not the other way around. Think of the .45S&W to .45Colt comparison being similar to the .38spl. to .357mag.....
 
what led up to the Colt 1911?
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The 1911 was adopted because the .38 Long Colt revolvers that were standard issue were too underpowered. The US was fighting Moro guerillas in the Philippines and it was common for the Moro to get high in order to dull pain before going into battle. The .38 Long Colt didn't have enough stopping power so the Army asked for a new pistol of at least .45 caliber (they decided on .45 because of the Thompson-LaGarde Tests). The main entrants into the competition were Browning, Savage and DWM (Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken), all chambered in .45 ACP.

John Moses Browning and his 1911 won the contract and their rightful place in history.
 
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Aston Johnson holster pistols were used by the US cavalry during the time of the Mexican-American war. It was just a single shot pistol, and it is what caused Ranger Walker (no not Chuck Norris) who was then a Captain in the US Mounted Rifles to contact Sam Colt and told him his colt patterson was handy because it was a repeater (5 shots) but too wussie (originally .28 cal, later .36 on top of 20 grains of black powder)

Sam Colt then built the Walker Revolver, and it was one hell of a gun. He made it big, real big. Big enough that having a pair on your horse was how you wanted to carry them, not on your belt. It had a .44 caliber ball on top of 60, yes 60 grains of black powder.

The walker was the most powerful production handgun until the 357 magnum dethroned it. The Walker had a few problems, and was overly big. it was soon replaced by the Walker Dragoon, which only used 50 grains of blackpowder, and had a slightly shorter barrel.

So yes, the US military switching from 45 acp to the weaker 9mm parabellum is nothing new. The military has been downgrading in power since it first had the Walker Colt.
 
When the United States entered World War One in 1917, America lacked a sufficient number of 1911 pistols to equip its growing army. So, Colt and Smith & Wesson double-action revolvers were procured in .45 acp. If memory serves me correctly, half-moon clips were used with these revolvers to extract the empty shell casings smoothly.


Timthinker
 
While in concept sound, the Walker's greatest weakness was its metallurgy and they were known to blow up when overloaded. It was disconcerting to the shooter but also a loss to collectors and enthusiasts like ourselves. Now, here's one book to check out if you get a chance: U.S. Martial Single Shot Pistols by Daniel D. Hartzler and James B. Whisker. Plenty of single shot percussion guns are illustrated in it. See if you can get it via inter-library loan.
 
With smokeless powder there are just three..

1) Colt revolver in .38 L.C.

2) Colt 1911 45 A.C.P.

3) Beretta M9 in 9mm.

Naturally other pistols/revolvers have been used but these three were the only official sidearms since 1898.
 
The S&W victory model and M15 Combat Masterpiece are a couple of .38spls that were regular issue, particularly w/ aviation & some MP units...My father was a CH46 crew chief in the 60's and was issued a S&W Combat Masterpiece carried in a issue leather shoulder holster w/ ctg loops on the chest strap. He always speaks very highly of it, when we talk of service life....
 
Remington Rolling Block 50 cal
Colt New Service 45acp
S&W 1917 45acp
S&W M&P 38 spl
S&W Victory 38 spl
Ruger Model SS-84L 38spl

And a few others.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
 
With smokeless powder there are just three..

1) Colt revolver in .38 L.C.

2) Colt 1911 45 A.C.P.

3) Beretta M9 in 9mm.
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Nope.... :what:

And the 1911 .45 Pistol wasn't what tamed the Moros... :what: :what:

Now lets see if anyone can name this mystery handgun... :evil:
 
I presume you mean the Colt Single Action Army, Model of 1873.

If so, well... no.

Go sit in the corner with your Teddy Bear... :evil::D
 
I thought the .45 LC was phased out for .38 caliber guns, then the next gun to come along was the 1911.
 
Apparently I'm wrong, so please educate me.
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Of course I will ... ;)

But first we need to give others a chance to come up with the right answer. I'll wait and see who pops up later tonight or in the morning.

Now for another question: Who was the Army officer who was behind this, and earlier was promoted directly from the rank of Capt. to Bg. General? :uhoh:
 
Well, I'll freely admit that I don't know what the mystery handgun is, but I do know that Acheron is right in saying the Model P was reissued during the insurecction. It was reissued w/ a 5 1/2"bbl though some were sent over immediately w/ the std 7 1/2"bbl. Of particular note, the Colt Double Action Army 1878 were rather quickly bought (COTS, if you will) and sent over at the same time as the 7 1/2" Model P.
The .38spl in an improved revolver from Colt was placed on the market as an improvement over the .38lc. The weapon was issued to the military as the 1905 Marine Corps model(in very small numbers) and the 1908 Army model, both w/ 6"bbls if I remember correctly.......
 
The 38 long cartridge was NOT stopping the Moros. The Army then rebuilt a bunch of 1873's, all chambered in 45Colt cal and cut the barrels down to 5 1/2". These became known as the "Artillery Model" Colts.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas





















Did I win?
 
That officer would be Brigadier General William Crozier. He was Chief of Ordnance from 1901 to 1918.
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VERY GOOD!!​

You obviously did your homework... Now you can leave the corner and bring the Teddy Bear. :D
 
oneshooter:


The 38 long cartridge was NOT stopping the Moros. The Army then rebuilt a bunch of 1873's, all chambered in 45Colt cal and cut the barrels down to 5 1/2". These became known as the "Artillery Model" Colts.
Click to expand...

Did I win?
Click to expand...

Nope... They started cutting down the barrels before the Spainish-American War (1898). It is true however that they did send some Model 1873 revolvers as a temporary solution - but they didn't work out very well.

The Model 1878 .45 revolvers were a special issue with oversized trigger guards. They were issued exclusively to the Philippine Constabulary - not the U.S. Army.

That corner is going to get crowded... :evil: :D :D
 
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