Military Surplus Rifles?

[Ohio Rifleman]

I'm thinking about getting into military surplus rifles since they're inexpensive, reliable and fun to shoot... So, any suggestions for military surplus rifles? I already own a Yugo SKS, as you can see, and enjoy it. I want to stay away from Swiss rifles because ammo for those is hard to find. I want to be able to go to a sporting goods store or wherever and buy the ammo, not order online or buy at a gun show. I've heard a lot of good things about Mosin Nagants and Lee Enfields...suggestions?

 

[jlmurphy]

You might want to go to a larger store that had a decent selection of surplus rifles, pick up and handle as many as possible. Every model of modern surplus rifle could easily turn into an entire collection, with endless variations and issues. You may find one model that speaks to you and then you're off! I wouldn't worry too much about ammo availability, for the cost of one rifle you can start reloading and never buy surplus ammo again. With handloaded ammo you can wring out the accuracy potential that would be impossible with surplus, not to mention the whole corrosive / not corrosive headache. Good luck!

 

[Jackal]

You cant go wrong with a Nagant. Call me crazy, but i have never enjoyed shooting a Mauser. I love my Mosin M44 and my Ishapore .308 Enfield.

 

[rangerruck]

ive got a mosin m38 and it rocks the house. I would think though that a swedish rifle in 6.5 swede would not be hard to find ammo for. there is allways some at Gander mountain, carters, academy, etc.

 

[Snowdog]

Get a K-31 cheap while you still can!

I bought mine for $89 a year or so ago. The wood was in rough shape, but cleaned up nicely after a couple hours with sandpaper and elbow grease. The metal was in surprisingly good shape.

Though the 7.5x55Swiss isn't the easiest (or cheapest) surplus ammunition, I understand more makers are manufacturing this caliber... including Wolf's "Gold" line, IIRC.

 

[ugaarguy]

How big is your budget OhioRifleman? You can go anywhere from a $100 Russian Mosin-Nagant to the $695 Swedish Mauser Carl Gustov CG-63 Match Rifles in 6.5x55 Swede that Sarco has. Ammo isn't hard to find, and those are very nice rifles. All depends on what you want.

 

[Kymasabe]

I have a 1948 Mosin M44 that was unissued and is the best of the pile of Mosins I have. Shoots great, accurate and fun. $99

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

M1 Garand from Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). The most revolutionary semi-automatic gun in the history of our nation; carried in WWII and Korea. This gun was unmatched in firepower during WWII and was a major factor in our win. It's inexpensive, and compared to the SKS, it is a tack driver with 300 yard plus capability. It is chambered in 30.06.

And with CMP, no FFL or C&R is required. Once you meet their requirements, they UPS the gun and ammo right to you.

BTW, they have no collector grade or correct grade left. I was fortunate enough to get the last of the correct grade and am waiting for it now. However, many people here endorse the purchase of a field grade or rack grade, for about $400. You can then send it to Fulton Armory or National Match Armory and have it tricked out to a match rifle with less tha 1 MOA accuracy.

Go here:

http://www.odcmp.com/

Click on sales, and then catalog. Enjoy.

 

[jem375]

honestly, I would forget the MN's and concentrate on the Swede M96, British Enfield's, and the K-31......I bought a MN 91/30 that was so bad I gave it away, I bought a MN M44 and although not as bad as the 91/30 it just doesn't compare with the other 3 mentioned. You can find ammo for the K-31 at any gun show.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

To get a fresh perspective on surplus rifles you may want to pick up a copy of Surplus Rifle Magazine. You can find it at Barnes and Noble and it it choc-full-o-surplus rifle info. They have good pictures and articles to get the juices flowing. The CMP program is a great one because you can turn it into a small business if you like. You can purchase up to four Garands per year which means that you can make anywhere from $500-1000 profit from reselling them. I personally own a Turkish Mauser 1938 and a Mosin Nagant M38. I love both but shoot the Nagant more due to Wolf manufacturing really cheap 7.62x54. The Mauser is chambered in 8mm and I usually order that ammo online from www.buyammo.com. I have found it for as cheap as $5.00 per box plus shipping. Any rifle you choose, you can't to wrong if you find it for a good price. I found both my rifles for under $50 each and they turned out to be shooters. Have fun with your search and with what you find.

 

[armoredman]

My newest Mosin, the 1920 Izzy 91/30, gave me a few sub 3 inch groups at 100 yards with surplus Czech Silvertip ammo, mostly 4 inch. That's an 86 year old rifle, and 40 year old mass produced ammo. I need more brass, so I can start reloading for it, and see where the "sweet spot" is! Rifle cost - $80.
As for Enfields, I have a 1943 LongBranch No4 MK1*, and I do have one handload that gives me one inch groups more often than not! Rifle cost -$50.
As for the Yugo? No matter what I stuff in either one, those SKS rifles will give no better than 6 inches at 100 yards. Still grand fun. Rifles cost, approx $150 each, unissued.

 

[iamkris]

To me, the must-have surplus rifles (e.g., they are readily available on the market today and will not break the bank) are:

• Garand - a piece of American history...if you buy from CMP, completely affordable
• Springfield 1903/1903A3 - same as above but now harder to get since they are out at CMP
• Eddystone/Remington M1917 - ditto 03
• Swiss K31 -- contrary to popular belief, it's easy to get ammo for these...original Swiss GP11, Wolf Gold, and the best excuse to start reloading you'll ever. The accuracy and lockwork will amaze you
• Mauser K98 - cause its the basis of every good bolt action today
• Mauser 24/47 - same as above and cheap
• Enfield No1 Mk III - amazing history from a once proud (and now neutered) country
• Enfield No4 Mk I - ditto above
• Yugo SKS - the cheapest SHTF rifle you'll ever buy
• MN 91/30, M38, M44 - great history, rock solid peasant construction, but they really don't float my boat
• Finn M39 - everything the Russian MN should have been, even cooler history and great accuracy
• Swede M96 -- super accurate, a work of art an a really lovely cartridge

BTW, I think the statements "I want to get into surplus rifles" and "I want to be able to buy the ammo at Skeeter's General Store in Moosepelvis, ID" are mutually exclusive statements. That's part of the "charm" of surplus...you get to learn a lot and be intimate with all the variations of ammo.

 

[dfaugh]

Mausers and Enfields. i wnet on a milsurp "buying binge a while back and acquired quite a few guns, in good condition, at good prices. But the Mosins are just so crude (even the LNIB M-44 I had) and such, that I found I never shot them much. They were also not accurate with milsurp ammo (although they did OK with commercial ammo). Thene there's the MN "safety". But the various Mausers are much better (although pricier) rifles, more accurate (although they still prefer commercial ammo). And, you could spend a lifetime, just aquiring all the differerent Mauser variants. I only just bought my 1st Enfield, and am restoring it (Bubba got to it first). but I so far I like what I see. Many consider the Enfields to be the most accurate WWII rifles.

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

Armoredman, you wrote <As for the Yugo? No matter what I stuff in either one, those SKS rifles will give no better than 6 inches at 100 yards. Still grand fun.>

Hmmmm ... Could it be that the barrel or muzzle is worn? My Norinco gives me 1-1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. A few weeks ago, I had a tight five-shot group of 2 inches at 100 yards. While I cannot do that repeatably, I have heard that the SKS is capable of 3 MOA, or three inch groups at 100 yards. This is by design, to would allow for 9 inches, or a torso hit at the 300 yard battle setting (the first marking on the rear sight, before the 1). And with my vision, I consistently stay within the 8 ring, knowing that the gun is capable of better.

 

[SigfanUSAF]

Must be that National Match SKS?

 

[armoredman]

Nope, both were unissued condition. I would love it if they gave me 3 inch groups at 100 yards, but so far, not happening. Maybe I'll try some more relaods to try again, but I don't hold out much hope. Don't get me wrong, they have perfectly acceptable battle accuracy for me. The AK won't even begin to scare the paper at 100 yards.

 

[Ohio Rifleman]

ugaarguy, in response, my budget is small, unfortunately, which is why I want to get into surplus rifles. I'd rather not spend more than a couple of hundred bucks for a rifle. The only exception I'd be willing to make would be for an M1 Garand. Man, I'm dying to get my hands on one of those. What exactly are the requirements to buy a rifle from the CMP?

 

[Black Snowman]

Even though you'll need to stockpile ammo rather than pick it up at wally world I'm going to have to say get a K31. They're just FUN to shoot and the quality is amazing. I bought a K31 quite a while back and my Dad loved it so much I sold it to him and bought 3 more for myself. 1 is a hand select walnut that's staying stock, the other 2 were "good" grade guns on the cheap that I'm sporterizing. My gunsmith has the "bench" gun now and is finishing up the custom scope mount and is threading the barrel for a muzzle break (mainly because I have a break laying around and nothing ot do with it). It's then getting Gun-Koted silver and I'll be making a walnut target stock for it myself.

They're supurbly accurate and durable, the straight pull action is quick, and the trigger is a fantasticly smooth two stage. The GP-11 ammo is quite accurate, the Wolf Gold is a slight bit better (which is very impressive considering how good the GP-11 is). I'm going to start reloading for it with the Wolf Gold brass and Hornady 178 gr A-Max bullets. I fully expect it to be a 3/4 MOA or better gun with optics and good ammo. Right now it's hard to tell it's full potential but with the iron sights on sand bags I can get 3" groups at 100 yards with the Wolf and about 3.5" groups with the GP-11.

 

[atomchaser]

M24/47, K-31, or Swedish Mauser. M24/47 is good on a tight budget since you can get surplus ammo for 8 cents a round. K-31 or the Swede if you want something really accurate -- ammo is a little more expensive, though.

 

[ugaarguy]

What exactly are the requirements to buy a rifle from the CMP?

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/eligibility_requirements.htm
Copy of Birth Certificate for proof of citizenship & age. Joining the Garand Collectors Assn. http://www.thegca.org/ is probably the easiest way to meet the affiliated organization requirement. Taking a NRA course and getting a certificate should be the easiest way to satisfy the marksmanship requirement - call local gunshops & ranges. How far are you from Camp Perry/Port Clinton, OH? A guy I work with went up there while he was home. He let them copy is birth certificate for proof of citizen ship, showed his military ID for the marksmanship requirement, and joined the GCA thru the rep there at the North Store to meet the affiliated organization requirement. Then you get to go thru the racks and pick your rifles yourself. He said the folks there were very friendly and helpful. So get yourself a notorized copy of your birth certificate, fullfill the marksmanship requirement and get a certificate, bring those with you and have fun trip up to North Ohio.

 

[chrisTx]

The CMP program is a great one because you can turn it into a small business if you like. You can purchase up to four Garands per year which means that you can make anywhere from $500-1000 profit from reselling them.

nothing like screwing over a fellow gun collector huh? that would also be illegal, unless you are a federally licensed dealer.

 

[carterbeauford]

NRA isn't a qualifying association for CMP?

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

Hhmmmm... I guess the NRA is not on their list. Very surprising.

I joined the Garand Collectors Association. They issue a great magazine with maintenance tips, tightening your group, etc. I think they mail it to you four times a year.

 

[BoySetsTheFire]

< Must be that National Match SKS?> Good one, Sigfan. But seriously, I think that many shooters don't really wring out the true accuracvy of the SKS because of the iron sights. It just aint easy to shoot at 100 yards with those iron sights. Even though I have gotten those groups, I'm not all that consistent. BTW, my SKS likes Winchester and Sellier & Bellot (twice the price of Wolf, damn it).

I would be curious if anyone here has a scope on their SKS. I would like to hear about their experience.

 

[alamo]

Quote:
The CMP program is a great one because you can turn it into a small business if you like. You can purchase up to four Garands per year which means that you can make anywhere from $500-1000 profit from reselling them.

nothing like screwing over a fellow gun collector huh? that would also be illegal, unless you are a federally licensed dealer.

It's unfortunate that the CMP encourages this sort of activity by their high purchase limits. They recently raised the Garand limit from 8 to 12 per year.

I've followed the CMP forum for awhile. They claim the vast majority of their sales are just one person buying one rifle. If that is true, then if you include those persons buying 2, 3, 4 or even 5 or 6 per year should account for virtually all of their annual sales. Raising the limit would have a neglible impact on annual sales if what they say is true.

The only reason I can see for allowing 8 and now 12 per year is to allow dealers to buy even more (and they do, I see them at gunshows for sale). The CMP supposedly frowns on dealers buying them for resale but I'm having a hard time believing that when they allow a person to buy 12 per year. Sure, a few collectors could afford to buy 12 in a year but I'd bet most folks buying 12 are dealers turning them around and reselling them.