Mini 14 in .223 versus ???

[rockheadd]

I have an 180 Series Mini-14, blued made in 1976. I also purchased a Ruger 20 round mag at the same time. I made this purchase in 1977. Here's the problem...I really don't like the .223. Add to the mix that you can't easily dress-up the 180 series (I really wanted the ATI Strikeforce, but it won't fit) and I'm thinking about selling/trading it for something with more "punch". Obvioulsy a .308 would be a major improvement and the 7.62x39 as well.
A friend with several buddys over in Iraq said they tell him all the guys on patrol trade-out their .223 AR's for AK's or .308 anythings (Socoms being the favorite) .223's deflect and don't penetrate anything. The AKs and SoComs go right through the mud walls.
So....am I an idiot for wanting to ditch to Mini-14? Is there something in the $400-$500 range thats reliable, fires a larger round? Is the 5.45x39 Polish AK clone (Tartant or something like that) a reasonable upgrade or is the 5.45x39 basically the same.. (I know about the air gap and design of the shell)?\
I'd get an SKS (Yugo), but they now want $400 and most I've seem are in pretty poor condition, plus the grenage launcher and bayonet are a pain.
Anyway, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Rubber_Duck]

So....am I an idiot for wanting to ditch to Mini-14?

I don't think you are. I'm not very fond of the Mini-14 myself.

Is there something in the $400-$500 range thats reliable, fires a larger round?

Yes, an SKS, or an AK if you can find one cheap (getting hard these days).

The 5.45x39mm was the Soviet's answer to the 5.56mm, so yes, you would have the same kind of performance (light and zippy but not hard-hitting).

 

[jdc1244]

I’d hang on to the Ruger – everyone needs a .223 in his collection. I suppose it also depends on what you can get for it. As noted SKSs are getting hared to find and pricey; but you might find a good condition Russian or Chinese SKS for $400-$500.

 

[Stinger]

Our troops do not trade out their issue ar's for ak, sks, or any other weapon. You're friend, to put it nicely, has no clue what he is talking about. The 223 will not deflect off of a person, and penetration is not an issue at all.

 

[rockheadd]

If I do decide to keep it, is there any stock kit (Tapco, ATI) that fits the 180 series? I'm not that big, but it feels like my nose is gonna get hung-up on the rear site. That being said, the Polish 5.45x39 stock (two wires attached to a pistol grip) I tried seemed to be made for very small people.

 

[rockheadd]

Stinger, I can't vouch for his knowledge of these things other than he's an active Deputy Sherriff and a member in good standing at the VFW Post. Could be a haggling technique as well as he wants to buy it from me. He did add that shotguns are very popular over there as well. Could be a case of a friend telling a friend telling a friend.....That wasn't the point of the question, rather a case in point for being interested in a larger, heavier round versus a fast, lightweight one.

 

[RevolvingCylinder]

A friend with several buddys over in Iraq said they tell him all the guys on patrol trade-out their .223 AR's for AK's or .308 anythings (Socoms being the favorite) .223's deflect and don't penetrate anything. The AKs and SoComs go right through the mud walls.

Either your friend or his buddies is/are obviously a liar and a poor one at that. Anyone who has actually examined and used the weapons of the locals would never want to stake their lives on them if given the choice. They are far inferior to the American M16A2/A4s and M4s in accuracy, ruggedness, and reliability. I doubt any of Springfield, Inc.'s products are used in theater and I have yet to see any M14s there.

He did add that shotguns are very popular over there as well.

Shotguns are nowhere near as common in use as M16s, M4s, and M249s. I would not say they are "popular".

And yes, I recently came back from the region and I'm frankly irritated by all the BS.

The 5.56x45 is a great cartridge and does what it is intended to do and does it well. It's not a .308 Winchester by any means(neither is the 7.62x39) but it's still an excellent round. You have to ask what you expect from your rifle/cartridge choice to really determine which round is right for you. It sounds like you are basing your choice of cartridges on misinformation.

If you don't like the Mini-14 that's reason enough to sell it. I don't think you would be gaining much to go to a Kalashnikov-pattern rifle or SKS solely to switch from 5.56x45 to 7.62x39.

 

[Art Eatman]

Don't go wandering off about guys in Iraq, or I'll go to editing and deleting.

The Mini is a good hunting rifle, but a lousy choice for tight groups at the benchrest. Good truck gun. I've found the .223 round to be good for coyotes and suchlike.

There are various ways to lengthen the length of pull, if the stock is too short.

They're good trading material, if somebody really wants something else...

 

[black_powder_Rob]

+1 on the above post. revovlingcylender


5.56 and 5.45 i believe were not meant to punch through heavy barriers, I have a Weaponology show that talks about the spetznaz and the 5.45 They showed how the ak 47 would punch through a center block and keep on going, where as the ak 74 with its 5.45 penetrated the first layer and broke up in the middle. They said that this translated into more internal damage if the round actually landed on flesh. ie. better man stoppers.

pick your round on what you want it to do..

 

[DarkCharisma]

If you're worried about combat effectiveness, don't.

I generally don't like feeding into the "Well my friend says", but I feel that Justin is a reliable and reputable source for information concerning this topic, as I was friends with him in high school and he was not a fabricator or liar in any sense;

Justin is part of the AFSC. He's currently deployed actively in Afganistan, and has been in a few firefights. I asked him about the potency of 5.56mm and he says that yes, there are times when attackers will NOT go down, but it also happens with .308, and 7.62x39mm, and .45ACP, and 12ga., etc. In his experience he's found that his 5.56mm out of his 14.5" M4 will almost ALWAYS put down an attacker, or severely disable them, allowing for an instantaneous follow-up shot to put him down for good.


It's a bit of a morbid topic to talk about, and take that with however much salt you want, as this is not MY personal experience, but I trust what Justin says, as he has a lot more experience on the topic then most of us here.

-Chad

 

[FMJMIKE]

The new Mini-14s are very nice. Heavier barrel and better sights. I have no problem using .223 in a self defense role. Of course I am not shooting through mud walls either.... I also am not restricted to FMJ ammo like the troops in a war are. Check one out.

 

[CZ223]

Mini 14s, like all other so called "assault style weapons", are going up in value. Personally, I have one and am going to keep it, even though I have two AR-15s and a Saiga. If you really have to have something more powerful then the Saiga is a good way to go. You can still get a pretty good deal on them, though they are getting more expensive like everything else. The mini 30 is also a good choice but mags are impossible to find. I had one on hold at a great price but, because of the situation with the mags, I let it go.

 

[wally]

I love the mini-30, too bad higher than 5-round magazines you can count on are out of the box are impossible to find.

With enough futzing around I've been able to get most of my ProMag to work, but I'd quickly pass it off to someone else if TSHTF.

The metal (Triple-K?) seemed to feed fine but wouldn't stay in the gun when shooting, either it'll drop down and close on an empty chamber or it'd ride up and block the bolt going forward. It was mis-sized by at least 0.60" from the factory mags. The ProMag pretty much match the factory measurements but swells when loaded. Careful filing on the mag body can get them to fit and feed, but it seems if you go too far the rounds are not retained under recoil leading to nose up feed failures.

I can't explain it but the Mini-30 has the lowest perceived recoil of all my 7.62x39 rifles (AK, SKS, AR, Mini-30).

The Mini (in any caliber) makes a lot more sense to me than say an M1 Carbine as a shooter. They call it the "Ranch Rifle" for a reason

--wally.

 

[Ignition Override]

Wally:
My brand-new Promag has operated almost 100% perfectly with the Mini 30.
during a total of 150 rounds, it once failed to strip a round from the mag during several shots in sequence. The spring is very tight.

The only other hang-ups with this quantity have been two ftfs, but were not the fault of the magazine.
As a comparison, my old Mini 14 was sold to me last spring with a 20-rd. Ruger mag, and during the first 60 rounds, it twice misfed, but never happened again.

 

[owlhoot]

Rockheadd, I too have an early Mini 14. And like you I was considering getting rid of the gun because I couldn't get a decent sight picture. Then I realized that the problem was not a serious one. I simply sanded down the comb (top) of the stock until I could see the sights without having to screw my head into an awkward position too far forward. It worked like a charm. Now the rifle is comfortable to shoot and when I mount the rifle to my shoulder my eye and the rear sight align perfectly.

I still didn't like the rear sight leaf. I removed it and drilled out the peep hole to enlarge it. Next I used a Dremel to carefully grind away all the excess metal that served no function other than to obliterate the target. Now it is just right. Off of a bench it is not as accurate as my AR, but shooting from the shoulder unsupported, I do about as well with it as I do the AR. I can bounce a gallon plastic milk jug with regularity at 100 yards, same as with the AR. And that is about as much as can be asked of an open sight carbine. By the way, I also added a muzzle break that attaches with the front sight pin, no gunsmithing required, and the extra weight on the barrel improved the accuracy considerably.

In short, you have a better rifle than you think you have. Just reducing the comb height will work wonders. Whatever you do, do not lengthen the stock with a pad. It will only increase your problem. If you want more specific information, PM me.

 

[wally]

My brand-new Promag has operated almost 100% perfectly with the Mini 30.

Almost 100%, like I said, I've gotten mine to mostly work too, but none have so far gone long enough without a stoppage for me to trust like I would an AR, HK, FAL, AK etc. magazine.

The only other hang-ups with this quantity have been two ftfs, but were not the fault of the magazine.

Ftf, failure to feed or fire? If feed why are you claiming its not a magazine issue. I've only shot the Russian steel cased ammo in my mini 30 so far and its alwyas gone bang if a round was in the chamber.

--wally.

 

[eye5600]

The enduring popularity of the Mini-14 is not because it's the best rifle, but because it's the best rifle (of its kind) for the price. It follows that trading up means more money.

From the comparisons I've seen on-line, the .223 does not seem to be very effective against adobe and cinder block. (This may be a consideration if you think you are going to be attacked by a masonry army.) Some troops from Iraq have reported some frustration in that respect, but most of the time they have other weapons on call when a building needs to come down.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

The Mini 14 is...what it is. There's no reason to part with it on the basis of caliber ineffectiveness or design reliability. If you want something bigger, that's fine. Just be careful not to rationalize the decision by faulty logic. .223/5.56 is a capable caliber. The Mini 14/30 design is anvil tough & VERY reliable. I've had several of them & eventually decided I liked the versatility of the AR platform better. But there's NOTHING lacking in a Mini.