Mini-14 vs. SU-16

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BradN

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I have several lever action and bolt action rifles. I've been considering the purchase of a semi-auto rifle for general plinking/fun reasons. I looked long and hard at the Mini-14 Ranch Rifle. I've read the numerous "Mini-14 vs. SKS" threads and have decided that an SKS is not for me. I want a new rifle, reliable, and ready-to-go out of the box. I'm in California so my options in this area are limited. I was pricing Mini-14s when a local dealer pulled out a Kel-Tek SU-16. I'm confused again. My thinking now is:

Mini-14:

Pro: Long History
Customization options
Reliable (big issue with me)
Con: More expensive
Less accurate
Comes with one 5 rd mag

SU-16:

Pro: Cool looking!
Slightly less money
Comes with 2 10 rd mags
More accurate?
Con: Reliability unknown (big issue with me)
Somewhat cheap looking

Any other comments to help a confused purchaser?

Thanks,

Brad
 
Ruger:
Con: Ruger is an anti-freedom company.

Kel-Tec:
Pro(s): cheaper and more readily available hi-cap mags, pro freedom company.
 
SU-16 cheaper? Come again- http://www.impactguns.com/store/ruger_mini14_bl.html

http://www.impactguns.com/store/kel_tec_su16_rifle.html

?

The Mini-14's main problems are easily addressable.

1) Inavailability of reliable hi-capacity magazines:
A non-issue in California, as hi-capacity magazines are illeagal. 10 round Pro-mag brand magazines work great, as do the factory 5 round Ruger magazines.

2) Innacuracy:
Factory Mini-14's usually shoot about 2-4 MOA out of the box. It can be tuned to shoot accurately for less than $100.

A. Finding the ammunition your Mini-14 likes or working reloads for it.

B. Adding a muzzlebrake. This puts some weight on the muzzle end, improving barrel harmonics. It usually cuts groups in half.

C. Bedding the stock. This will improve group sizes considerably.

3) Other improvements that may or may not improve accuracy

A. Mike Knifong's gas bushing kit: It's a smaller gas port insert that allows less gas to cycle the action, thus reducing recoil and keeping your sights on target.

B. Mike Knifong's trigger job: improves trigger pull. what else do you need to know?


With all of these upgrades, I have seen Mini-14's shoot group sizes under an inch at 100 yards. If you don't want to tweak around with all of these upgrades and just want to get instant results, it's going to cost you. Clarks Custom Guns does heavy barrel conversions, as does Accuracy Systems International. They are garunteed to produce 1 MOA or better, but will cost you about $300.

By it's own, the Mini-14 has there merits:

1. Lightweight
2. Good sights on the standard model
3. 'Ranch Model' has nice folding peep sights, and comes with sturdy rings.
4. Good trigger
5. Garand-style safety
6. Reliable
7. Garand-style rotary bolt and gas system
8. Sturdy, simple construction
9. Eregronomic
10. Upgradable
 
In a guhnfight, I'd rather have a bolt action than a mini14. At least I know the bolt gun is going to work. After 3 mini14s, I'd rather have something that actually works!
 
I have both and prefer the SU-16. A hair more accurate and the integral rail affords more options. Thinking about $ending the Mini-14 to ASI for a 16" bull barrel, pin bedding and a trigger guard.... I hardly shoot it anymore.
 
I'm like Sven, I have them both - and I have an AR-15 as well. I can tell you right now that the SU-16 is a very impressive rifle indeed! It's more accurate than the Mini-14 (I've shot dozens of Mini's, and have never found a factory-original gun that would do better than 2-3 MOA with military ball, whereas the SU-16 will do 2 MOA all day with the same ammo, as will the AR-15). It's lighter, and more "portable" in the sense that the folding option makes it easier to put into a duffel bag or something that doesn't scream "Rifle!" to those near you. It's reliable: mine has so far not malfunctioned at all.

I'm now very seriously considering selling my Mini-14 and buying a second SU-16. Even my AR-15 might just end up being sold... the SU-16 does all that I need a 5.56mm. semi-auto rifle to do.
 
I have a ranch. Done all the 'cheap tricks' mentioned on this post. Wouldn't buy another - but - reliability hasn't been an issue using 10rd Masen mags. IMHO, you don't get much for what you pay. I wish I would have gone for one of the high quality AK47 types.
 
Well, there's no use suggesting things that have no bearing on this question, as the original poster is in California.
As in 30 round mags, get an AK, get an AR, etc.

Price - comparing a standard blue Mini, to the SU around here, the price difference is negligible.
If you are going to scope the gun, you need to compare to the Ranch Mini, which is about $50 more than the standard.
- A Mini 14 is available in stainless, if you want to go that route.
- Good 10rd mags are available for either, so that's all that matters as long as you live in Cali.
-I like KelTec guns in general, and I'm sure the SU16 would be a decent gun.
-I would say without a doubt that Ruger guns are of higher quality.
-Mini 14s have been used by Police and some small military units for years. Honestly, I don't think you'll see a SU16 in a Police car. (Flame suit on.) It just doesn't feel like it would hold up. I could be wrong.
(That said, I do know many local cops who buy HiPoint carbines as trunk guns, and I think they would be much better served by the KelTec, but the HiPoint is 1/2 the price.)
-If you like the looks of the SU16 buy one. I don't think I could ever get used to one. And, if you happen to find that you've had some GI 30rd mags in the garage since before the ban, :rolleyes: you could have a blast.
-I've owned several Minis, and just had my current one cut to 16.5".
I really like the classic looks, and I've accurized one to the point it would shoot 2" groups at 100yds, with Mil. Spec. ammo, and open sights , so I know it can be done. A few hours of your time, and $50 - $100, and it can be a sweet shooter.
-If you like to tinker, the Mini is the way to go. There is just not much you can do to the KelTec.
-Reliability: I've got to think the Ruger would win here, based on the history of the design, and the reputation of the rifle. Time will tell.

That's the great thing about America, (even if you live in California), you can choose to own a firearm, and you can choose which one you want.
 
I've owned a Mini, and handled a SU-16. Not a great experience base I'll admit, but given what experience I've had...

I'd likely still go for the Mini. It just seems more solid to me. Now I say that not particularly liking the Mini mind you (fabulous concept, mediocre to poor execution), and there's a lot of GOOD advantages to the SU-16 I really like (takes AR mags, integral optic rail.. the bipod thingie is a cute gimick). And I'll admit that the plastic body of the SU-16 felt a lot more stable (at least brand new in the shop) than I expected.

But I still at a gut level wouldn't trust it as anything more than a toy. Provided decent magazines, I'd trust the Mini to be a decent knockabout carbine.

Hrmm.. then again, you mention already having bolt and lever rifles, and if you're just looking for a piece for "plinking/fun" use, the SU-16 might be right up your alley. :)
 
IMO you really need to handle both and see which one feels better to you.

The Mini-14 does have the advantage of a ~30 year track record for being a reliable rifle. Mini-14s are extremely reliable, provided that you use good magazines. Unfortunately, the market is glutted with POS Mini-14 mags which cause the gun to malf. Get good mags and a Mini-14 will work.

Note that the SU-16 may turn out to be as reliable as the Mini-14. It just hasn't been on the market all that long, so we don't know yet.

Out of the box the SU-16 may have the edge when it comes to accuracy, but as natedog mentioned, with a little bit of work the Mini-14 can be made quite accurate for what it is -- a light, semiauto carbine that's intended to be used as a plinker, defensive carbine, and pick up truck gun. With the right tweaks and handloads, the Mini-14 can be made very accurate, period.

If you get a Mini-14, since you're in Kali and can't have normal capacity mags, stick with the Pro-Mags and John Masen 10-round magazines. These seem to have the best rep of current production Mini-14 magazines (aside from the factory 5 rounders).

FWIW, I have an older Mini-14 which I bought used, that unbeknownst to me, came without the gas port bushing. When I fired it this resulted in much more gas getting bled from the barrel to work the action, really beating the heck out of the gun. Guess what? It still worked for 50 rounds until the extra gas blew the fixed piston out into the stock recess. After getting the gun home and apart I figured out what was wrong and fixed it with the right part from Brownell's. I've put a few hundred rounds through it since then -- Federal XM-193, Winchester White Box, and Wolf 55 and 62 grain FMJ, and Ultramax 55 grain JHP, and it's run 100%.
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I just bought the Mini-14 Ranch.

I went to the local shop after work. I handled both and liked both. The long term track record of reliability of the Mini, the availability of many after-market accessories, and the more solid feel helped me make up my mind.

Thanks again,

Brad
 
Everyone else reports great John Masen mags, unfortuenatly mine were not the case. Out of an order of 10 magazines, every single one of them were extremly difficult to seat, and impossible to remove without tools. Never tried to see if they'd feed, I packaged them up and sent them back. I'm happy with Pro Mags.
 
John Masen are junk. The Promags are okay. Better yet, find those PMI you bought 10 years ago and left in the garage...
 
Everybody has different experience with mags.
I had heard a lot of good stuff about the Promag 10rd mags.
I bought 3. While I'm sure most of the Promags are good mags, mine:
-wouldn't activate the bolt stop.
-would only hold 9 rounds.
-spit out multiple rounds when firing. :eek:

I bought 3 John Masen from Midway, for $9 each.
They do activate the bolt stop.
They hold 10 rounds.
I've shot several hundred rounds through them, and they still work like factory.

Brad N:
Congrats!
I think you'll be pleased.
Find some good mags, and stick a quality scope on your gun, and have some fun.

If you want info. on mags, accessories, accurizing, etc., try this place:
http://www.perfectunion.com/forums/index.php?showforum=8

I had my standard Mini at the range yesterday.
I just had my barrel cut to 16.5", and wanted to put a few rounds through it.
I had a blast!
 
I have owned my Mini for 10 years now. It has been super reliable, and has never jammed with a good magazine. I have shot 6 deer, and countless rabbits and beavers.

I am thinking about adding a Su-16 to my collection. It is going to be my car gun. I am working on a mounting system for my trunk that will be both case and mount so that I am legel here in Wi, and in neighboring states.
 
I have read several reports of the SU-16 malfunctioning. My Mini-14 has never failed to go bang.

I wouldn't consider an SU-16 until it has had all the bugs worked out. Who wants to be a beta site for a new rifle?
 
After more failures with my SU-16 this weekend, the jury is out till KelTec looks it over - the Mini-14, no question, has been very reliable. The number one feature I like most about a mini-battle rifle is RELIABILITY followed by accuracy, accessories, etc.
 
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Don't know much about the SU16, but I do own a Mini-14 and I did a little work on it and can get 1" groups using Nosler 60 grain bullets. I use mine for river otter hunting and have no problem shooting one it the head at 100 yards swimming, shot a few deer too with it and I'm happy I bought it.
 
If you get a Mini-14, since you're in Kali and can't have normal capacity mags, stick with the Pro-Mags and John Masen 10-round magazines. These seem to have the best rep of current production Mini-14 magazines
Click to expand...

I have 2 John Masen magazines. Neither will hold the bolt open after the last shot. Per to company: "That's just the way it is with some rifles."

I have one Promag, it works fine, and that'w what I'll be buying now.
 
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