Minimum Unique charge in .38 Special?

[J-Bar]

All my references list single powder charges of Unique for a given bullet weight. Even Alliant's online loading table gives a single (assume maximum?) charge of Unique. Online discussions seem to be concerned with the maximum powder charges for Unique in a given caliber, not a minimum.

The reason for my question is, I enjoy casual paper punching with light loads. I am not hunting, not competing, not trying to find a self-defense load. I am running low on Bullseye, but have a couple of pounds of Unique on hand. I understand Unique has the reputation of being "dirty" in light loads, but that does not scare me.

Specific questions:

1. Can Unique be used in place of Bullseye for the classic .38 Special target load: 2.7-3.0 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain lead wadcutter seated deeply into the case? If so, what charge of Unique should be used?

2. What is your recommendation for the minimum load of Unique under a 158 grain lead RNFP seated conventionally (crimped at the groove) in the .38 Special?

Thanks for your comments and expertise.

 

[barnfrog]

All my references list single powder charges of Unique for a given bullet weight. Even Alliant's online loading table gives a single (assume maximum?) charge of Unique. Online discussions seem to be concerned with the maximum powder charges for Unique in a given caliber, not a minimum.

The reason for my question is, I enjoy casual paper punching with light loads. I am not hunting, not competing, not trying to find a self-defense load. I am running low on Bullseye, but have a couple of pounds of Unique on hand. I understand Unique has the reputation of being "dirty" in light loads, but that does not scare me.

Specific questions:

1. Can Unique be used in place of Bullseye for the classic .38 Special target load: 2.7-3.0 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain lead wadcutter seated deeply into the case? If so, what charge of Unique should be used?

2. What is your recommendation for the minimum load of Unique under a 158 grain lead RNFP seated conventionally (crimped at the groove) in the .38 Special?

Thanks for your comments and expertise.

Lee Modern Reloading 2nd ed. shows the following data for Unique in .38 Special:

148 grain wadcutter: Same starting and maximum charge of 3.2 grains resulting in 775 fps
158 grain lead bullet (unspecified): 4.0 grains for 869 fps to 4.3 grains for 920 fps

Lyman 48th edition lists the following load data:

150 grain (#358091) 3.7 grains at 820 fps up to 4.2 grains for 894 fps
158 grain (#358665) 4.0 grains for 791 fps to 4.5 grains at 871 fps

Hornady 4th edition lists the following data:

148 grain (BBWC, HBWC, DEWC) 3.3 grains at 800 fps to 3.8 grains at 900 fps
158 grain (LRN, SWC, SWC/HP) 3.9 grains at 750 fps up to 4.4 grains for 900 fps

I have no experience with any of those loads. Hope that helps.

 

[Seedy Character]

Bullseye can be used in .38 Spl.
It is NOT a 1-1 replacement.

The LIGHTEST I have loaded Unique in .38 Spl is 3.5 gr with 148 gr wadcutters, 4.0 gr as more accurate.

My Nosier manuals shows MIN 3.8 gr Unique with 158 @ 581 fps. Bullseye is 3.1 gr @ 630 fps, with 4.1 gr as a MAX load.

 

[243winxb]

What is your recommendation for the minimum load of Unique under a 158 grain lead RNFP seated conventionally (crimped at the groove) in the .38 Special?

Speer minimum , 4.0 grs. https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

I have loaded my (158)163 gr cast to a 38 Special +P maximum of 5.3grs. Unique @ 790+ fps in 2" bbl. (Not accurate)

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

All my references list single powder charges of Unique for a given bullet weight. Even Alliant's online loading table gives a single (assume maximum?) charge of Unique. Online discussions seem to be concerned with the maximum powder charges for Unique in a given caliber, not a minimum.

The reason for my question is, I enjoy casual paper punching with light loads. I am not hunting, not competing, not trying to find a self-defense load. I am running low on Bullseye, but have a couple of pounds of Unique on hand. I understand Unique has the reputation of being "dirty" in light loads, but that does not scare me.

Specific questions:

1. Can Unique be used in place of Bullseye for the classic .38 Special target load: 2.7-3.0 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain lead wadcutter seated deeply into the case? If so, what charge of Unique should be used?

2. What is your recommendation for the minimum load of Unique under a 158 grain lead RNFP seated conventionally (crimped at the groove) in the .38 Special?

Thanks for your comments and expertise.

Yes, it can and is and has been by people like me for some time.
First, the "book data":



The Lyman bullet #358495 and #358091 are both button-nose wadcutters. The #358495 was tested in a 6" S&W Model 14 revolver, ca. 1967 (Lyman 44th Ed.). The #358091 was tested using a Universal receviever and a 4" pressure barrel, ca. 2002 (Lyman 48th Ed.). As you can see, both Unique and Bullseye are capable of much lower velocities than full-speed and still being accurate. The previous generation of analysts thought Unique required a little more speed to put the bullet in the X-Ring. Later analysts were just testing for pressure, not accuracy, "Loads shown in bold designate potentially most accurate load." [emphasis added]

Now, for the anecdotal "data":
The old-school max load of 6.8gr. has never worked for me in my 4" revolvers; not as an accuracy load, anyway. It isn't even that wonderful in my 6" .38Spl Official Police revolvers. 4.5gr. of Unique under a 145GR. DEWC is a good load and very accurate, with minimal recoil and not really "dirty" in my guns with a tight roll crimp. I've gone as low as the 3.5gr start and it's just kinda all-around "meh." At 5.0gr from a 5-1/2" Pietta "Peacemaker" clone, and a Speer 148gr. HBWC, it perks right up and is a very tight-grouping (pun intended) load. For me, 4.0-6.0gr. with a 145gr. DEWC or 148gr. Speer HBWC has a lot of sweet-spots. I'm pretty sure at the lower end (4.0-4.5gr) you'll find an accurate, low recoil, very little flash, and as clean as any other graphite-coated powder load that meets your needs. If it isn't at 4.5, go on up to 5.0 but after 5gr. Unique starts to show it's "boom."
Hope this helps.

 

[Shivahasagun]

If you're willing to order new brass, consider .38 Colt Short.

Same bullets. You can make lighter loads than .38 Special can or make 850 fps 158 gr loads with Colt Short brass!

 

[J-Bar]

Thank you, I have the guidance I need. Off to the reloading room!

 

[Rule3]

As with all Alliant powder, the charge rate is the maximum


So they have this,
https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloa...owderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=3&cartridge=26

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

 

[crstrode]

The old-school max load of 6.8gr. has never worked for me in my 4" revolvers; not as an accuracy load, anyway. It isn't even that wonderful in my 6" .38Spl Official Police revolvers. 4.5gr. of Unique under a 145GR. DEWC is a good load and very accurate, with minimal recoil and not really "dirty" in my guns with a tight roll crimp. I've gone as low as the 3.5gr start and it's just kinda all-around "meh." At 5.0gr from a 5-1/2" Pietta "Peacemaker" clone, and a Speer 148gr. HBWC, it perks right up and is a very tight-grouping (pun intended) load. For me, 4.0-6.0gr. with a 145gr. DEWC or 148gr. Speer HBWC has a lot of sweet-spots. I'm pretty sure at the lower end (4.0-4.5gr) you'll find an accurate, low recoil, very little flash, and as clean as any other graphite-coated powder load that meets your needs. If it isn't at 4.5, go on up to 5.0 but after 5gr. Unique starts to show it's "boom."
Hope this helps.

How deep are you seating the DEWC bullets in the above examples??

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

How deep are you seating the DEWC bullets in the above examples??

The 145gr. and Speer 148gr. both have crimp grooves. I don't measure, I seat to the crimp groove for both. About a thumbnail's worth of lead peeking out from over the case rim.

One other thing to note:the Lyman's data is for #2 Alloy (5-5-90) and Linotype, respectively. The Speer are swaged antimonial lead (I don't know the mix) and the cast 145gr. BNWC I have are cast from 1:30 alloy, which is pretty close in hardness to #2 Alloy.

 

[.38 Special]

Thank you, I have the guidance I need. Off to the reloading room!

Please let us know how it goes. I haven't had great results dropping below typical mid-range loads with Unique.

 

[J-Bar]

Please let us know how it goes. I haven't had great results dropping below typical mid-range loads with Unique.

Will do. I'm hoping to get to the range tomorrow (Saturday) for some brief trials. Hopefully the shaky old man won't show up and my trigger squeeze will be acceptable!

 

[AgPilot]

I’ve been loading 4.3 gr under a 158 gr Berry FP, 158 gr Extreme RNFP and a few 158 gr cast for My Wife to plink with. She shoots a S&W Featherweight. Told Her I can back off the powder a tad bit. But, She said they are fine the way they are.

 

[AJC1]

Unique can basically download dam near zero. Guy on YouTube was shooting cast bullets at 2 grains. Must have needed a shop broom to clean up after. I love Unique but I keep it mid range or above so it's not quite as dirty.

 

[N555]

I wouldn't, unique is best at 38spl+p levels at least with lighter bullets.

 

[Pat Riot]

Oops. Almost posted incorrect data. Don’t mind me…just passing thru

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Oops. Almost posted incorrect data. Don’t mind me…just passing thru

Who was that masked man?

 

[Pat Riot]

Who was that masked man?

I made a boo-boo. I had posted a load recipe for Unique and Wadcutters and it dawned on me I was thinking of my test with Universal powder.
I should know better than to post loads without referring to my manuals or my load cards.

I am currently away from home so I was going by memory. I need to remember not to do that. Haha

 

[Mr_Flintstone]

All my references list single powder charges of Unique for a given bullet weight. Even Alliant's online loading table gives a single (assume maximum?) charge of Unique. Online discussions seem to be concerned with the maximum powder charges for Unique in a given caliber, not a minimum.

The reason for my question is, I enjoy casual paper punching with light loads. I am not hunting, not competing, not trying to find a self-defense load. I am running low on Bullseye, but have a couple of pounds of Unique on hand. I understand Unique has the reputation of being "dirty" in light loads, but that does not scare me.

Specific questions:

1. Can Unique be used in place of Bullseye for the classic .38 Special target load: 2.7-3.0 grains of Bullseye under a 148 grain lead wadcutter seated deeply into the case? If so, what charge of Unique should be used?

2. What is your recommendation for the minimum load of Unique under a 158 grain lead RNFP seated conventionally (crimped at the groove) in the .38 Special?

Thanks for your comments and expertise.

A seated 148 gr WC leaves almost identical usable case volume as a 150 gr .38 S&W cartridge. I would think that you could use normal .38 S&W data for your .38 Special WC loads without issue. I have an old Ideal manual that lists 3.0 to 4.7 gr Unique for .38 S&W, so that might be a starting place. 3.0 grains would be pretty weak though.

 

[Captcurt]

Dug out my old 3rd edition Hornady. Shows 3.1gr starter with 148gr wc

 

[GooseGestapo]

Unique gets dirty at lower charges/pressures.
The closest pairing with Bullseye is 3.1 Unique ~= 2.5 Bullseye. 3.4 ~= 2.8gr Bullseye.

The first 148gr wadcutters I ever loaded was with 3.4gr Unique. It’s good shooting but sooty and dirty.
I find 6.0gr with a 158/164gr SWC in a .357mag case to be much more fulfilling. Warm enough to not feel like shooting a .22rf.

 

[J-Bar]

Today’s range report posted as a new thread.

Thanks to all participants here for your information.