Minnesota shutdown affecting permit issuance

[Thresh]

In Minnesota, the state government has been shut down due to failure to balance the budget. In order to purchase a handgun or "military style" rifle, you must get a permit from the state. The permit statute says that upon receipt of the application, the police or sheriff's department must complete a background investigation and issue the permit or explanation of denial within seven days. One of the checks is with the department of human services, to see if the applicant has been involuntarily committed. DHS is closed due to the shut down, so these checks are not being processed (for most people). This check is explicitly prescribed by the statute, and the only part of the mandated process affected by the shut down.

Transferee permit statute

I applied for my permit at the beginning of the month and am still waiting. I have been told by my local PD that it will be an "unknown" amount of time. I presume this is a thinly veiled way of saying they won't issue the permit until the government returns to work and they complete the background checks. I have heard unsubstantiated anecdotes that some jurisdictions are issuing permits during the shut down, and at least two sheriffs are issuing permits to carry without being affected by the stoppage. The background check for that permit is the same check, however, the carry statute explicitly states that failure to respond to an application after 30 days constitutes an issuance. The transfer statute does not have language that strong. I should also note that the sheriff of my county has said that his office will delay processing carry permits until the return to work, effectively gambling that the shut down will end before those applications become de facto issuances.

Permit to carry statute, for reference

Essentially, I have been puzzling over whether to be insistent that the department issue my permit. It is not terribly uncommon, so I have been told, for permits to take longer than the statute allows. Which is, of course, illegal, though perhaps not in this case.

It might also be worth noting that the DHS checks have been ordered to continue by a judge, but processing of the checks is discretionary for anyone not needing one as part of their employment in a "critical core function" role.

Said order

I don't suppose any of you gentleman would have any insight, or better yet, personal experience? I have called with the intent of asking, but been put on hold for longer than I have to wait (in excess of 15 minutes), and going down to the station is not convenient as I have to be at work during the day. As such, I'm trying to have to talk to them only once. Not to mention, I'm sure repeatedly inquiring about it would not earn me any friends among whomever answers the department's phones. Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[crm7290]

I think that because it goes through your local police department you do not have to worry about the shut down for both permit to carry and the pistol/ar permit. My friend just got his the other day...

It may just be the police department takes the full 30 days to issue your permit for carry.

The shutdown will be over soon enough. They are figuring it all out and should be up this week or the next

 

[jfh]

If you are getting your permit though Hennepin County, rest assured that they will get it to you in thirty days, and not one day before. I believe that there are other offices doing it that way, too--or, at least there were in 2008.

And, yes, I think repeated calling is not a good idea.

Jim H.

 

[Thresh]

Thanks for the replies.

I must apologize; I wasn't being clear enough in my initial post. I've been waiting on my permit to purchase, not permit to carry. The PtP must, by statute, be issued or denied within seven days. My curiosity about the matter (in addition to my impatience for my permit to be issued) is which section of the permit statute takes precedence, the one that says there's a hard seven day limit, or the one that says the police must make inquiries at the DHS.

Additionally, there's also the fact that my department bluntly refused to give me a receipt for submitting my paperwork, as required by the statute. I spoke with the deputy chief on the matter and was told that the department did not, now or at any time in the past, issue receipts.

At least the shutdown has ended (DHS returns to work today), so if I'm lucky, I'll get my permit within a few days.

 

[jfh]

FWIW--when I got a PtP, it took ten days--e.g., it took longer than five business days and went over into the next week. And this was with a cooperative department out here. As for the receipt--who knows? Keep in mind that some of the issues here are not firearms issues per se, but simply a bureaucratic problem--e.g., they bought no special pad of receipts to use for the PtP issuance, or something like that--

Jim H.

 

[westhope]

Here is the form from the Minnesota BCA that all departments are to use for a "Permit To Purchase".

Note on the last page is a "Receipt". You are to receive this receipt when you file the application. Many departments conviently FORGET to fill out this part of the offical application and give it to you. If they are not giving you the receipt they have not completely filled out the form.

This is when your 7 days start. It is not 7 business days, it is 7 calendar days.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-divisions/administrative/Documents/MNUniformFirearmApp.pdf

 

[Thresh]

Jfh: what Westhope said. Additionally, the statute says that the police are responsible for making that form available to everyone, so a bureaucratic failure would still constitute a violation of the statute. Whether it was administratively unavailable is a non issue in my case as well, since I printed out my own copy, and brought it in with the rest of my papers, and explicitly asked them to sign it. They refused. It would also fail to explain what I was told by the deputy chief, assuming what he said was correct, and I have no reason to doubt it. I admire your charitable optimism, though.

 

[jfh]

No doubt you guys are correct. Our local permitting office--the Independance / MP PD--was simply straightforward in doing their work according to statute for the PtP.

So, you guys are finding elsewhere--"southern MN" is a bigger territory--that they are actively not following procedure in order to slow issuance? Is that what is happening?

 

[Thresh]

I can't fairly make the claim that they're intentionally taking longer than the statute allows, yet. But my department - St. Louis Park - certainly doesn't seem bothered by the fact that refusing to grant a receipt violates the statute. However, I would not be terribly surprised if, at this time next week, I'm still without my permit.

 

[dayoop]

I live in Saint Louis County and all of my permits have gone through the sheriffs department. They always give a receipt and are always prompt when issuing permits. My ptp's have always been mailed to my house in 2 to 5 days and my ptc came in 16 days. I have never had any issues with them and always had courteous service. Sorry to hear about other people having problems.

 

[Ultravox]

I live in Minneapolis and the Minneapolis Police Department handles permits here.

When I presented the paperwork the woman behind the counter asked if I wanted the receipt. I said "Yes, please" and she signed it.

She then told me it would be about 14 days. I didn't want to argue about it as I wasn't in a hurry.

My permit showed up in about 12 days. BUT it had no expiration date on it, so it wasn't valid.

I called the police department and had to go back down to City Hall to get it date stamped - which they did on the spot.

It was a bit of a hassle, but they did issue it.

 

[Thresh]

I live in Saint Louis County ...

St. Louis Park is a suburb of Minneapolis, in Hennepin county. Your sheriff's department sounds like a real stand-up group of people.

No one to whom I've spoken has had any real idea on how the law should be interpreted, given the shutdown; though to be fair, I haven't talked with any lawyers. I'm continually disheartened, but sadly not surprised, at the nonchalant way some law enforcement individuals or departments flout the law, and the high difficulty (or rather, monetary cost) one has to go through to get the situation rectified. I'm sure I come off as petty to some (the deputy chief made it pretty clear that was his opinion of me) for complaining about this - after all, this isn't a terribly huge deal in the grand scheme of things - but really, how can it possibly be acceptable for a police department's official policy to be not following the laws?

 

[dayoop]

I lived in Burnsville for a while in the 80's and my brother lives in Coon Rapids. I couldn't wait to move back up north. I live about 60 miles north of Duluth and can tell you that it's like living in a whole different world up here. The attitudes about firearms are not the same as in the cities. We consider them to be tools and not weapons, unless they have to be. There are many carry classes up here and they are always full. I have not heard of anyone have a problem getting a permit or having trouble with law enforcement.