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Missing Primers After Firing 9mm Reloads

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by mudmanfloyd, Nov 20, 2013.

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  1. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    Howdy, I am new to reloading and have only loaded up a few batches of 9mm. I shot about 200 rounds at a steel shoot this evening and noticed that a few of my empties were missing primers. All of the rounds fed, fired, and ejected without issue. Recoil was not bad, nor did the rounds seem louder than usual.

    I have found information online stating that some people have had federal brass have loose primer pockets which could cause this. I have also seen others state that missing primers can be a sign of high pressure.

    What do you think? Am I likely loading too hot? Is it something else?

    I am loading 115gr Berry's Plated bullets, in .FC. once fired brass, with 4.4gr of tite group, OAL all between 1.150 and 1.158. I tested loads at 4.0gr and the brass was ejecting right into my face. The 4.4gr feels good, but I want to make sure I am loading safely.
     
  2. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    Sounds like you are doing everything right. 4.4gr of titegroup is a little hot but not more than max. If the pressure was way too high the primers would be flat and some of the primers would be punctured.
    I've never had any primers fall out of the pocket after shooting the cartridge.
    Maybe there is a batch of cases with very loose pockets.
    Hope others can help, I load and shoot 300-400 9mm and 40 rounds per week. I'm not a novice at this.
     
  3. 1SOW

    1SOW Member

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    Which primers?

    It's possible to pick up brass with a loose primer hole, but not so likely with several at the same time.

    I've been shooting over 10K 9mm/yr for quite a while and have had ONE primer fall out as I was handling the fired cartridge case in my case bag.
     
  4. noylj

    noylj Member

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    If a primer falls out, the case is trash. Dispose of them. Cases are too cheap and safety too important.
    In 40 years of shooting 9x19, I have NEVER had a primer fall out.
    Cases may not have been hardened enough at the case head, so cases are weak and too malleable.
     
  5. Thompsoncustom

    Thompsoncustom Member

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    Hmm my first thought is your pressures are to low and the primers aren't sealing but I ran your data through Quickload and if your throwing a 4.4 charge than you should be right where you want to be.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The cases are trash.

    Assuming they were good cases that had not been over stressed previously by over pressure loads, then that load is over pressure. Did the primers seat normally?

    I have never had a primer come out of a 9MM case, not even with a couple of loads that were borderline.
     
  7. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Hodgdon
    Berry's Plated Bullets FAQ
     
  8. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    Thanks for all the help.

    1. Berry's load data: I know the LRN max is 4.3gr, but Berry's does say its fine to use mid-range jacketed data. I couldn't find any FMJ data, but my Lee manual and Hodgdon site list 115 GR. SPR GDHP with a min of 4.5gr and a max of 4.8.

    4.4gr seems like it should be very reasonable based on that data. Am I wrong to use the SPR GDHP as my "jacketed data?"

    2. I am still having a tough time recognizing pressure signs like flattened primers. The pictures in my Lee manual aren't great and I guess I just need more practice. This afternoon I'll snap a pic of some of my other empties from this batch to make sure none of you spot any pressure signs.

    3. Is it possible that I am not seating the primers with enough force or not seating them deep enough?

    4. Anybody have instructions on how I can get my Lee Pro Auto Disk to throw 4.2gr of Titegroup? Right now I am stuck with 4.0gr or 4.4
     
  9. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    If you are dropping primers, that IS a "pressure sign" and a severe one.
    What headstamp on the brass? I found a .45 of the sorry A-MERC brass that had slipped through with the primer fallen out, no shooting required.

    You can adjust the Lee disk cavities with a file or epoxy, up or down, to get the load you want. I'd try some at 4.0 first, though.
     
  10. jwrowland77

    jwrowland77 Member

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    Not that anything is wrong with your 4.4gr of TG, but I use 4.0 for my FMJ, and it's a very nice shooting load, and very accurate load.

    When using load data, you really want to use loads for bullets with the same profile as the one your using. So if you're using a Berrys RN, and can't find specific load data for Berrys 115gr RN, you'll want to pick another bullet profile with a RN in the 115gr.
     
  11. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    Headstamp is ".FC."

    I tried 4.0gr loads and the brass was ejecting directly into my face.

    Have people been successful using the epoxy/file method? I'm worried about a rougher surface after tampering leading to inconsistent drops.

    I am shooting these loads in a stock Glock 19, by the way.
     
  12. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    jwrowland77, are your 4.0gr FMJ loads using 115gr bullets? What type of firearm are you shooting them through?

    4.0gr on the Berry's in my Glock didn't seem to have quite enough oomph to eject the brass away from my face. It did cycle the action, and was definitely a very mild smooth shooting load.
     
  13. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

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    dillon makes a primer pocket swager that might help restore the pocket to original demensions. adding a primer sealer after swaging to seal the primer in might also help retain primers. just a thought
     
  14. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    The primer is more likely to fall out before shooting it than after shooting it. The case rear and primer gets compressed against the breech when firing and should be tighter.
    Just out of curiosity you should check out the breech face of you slide. Where the firing pin comes out and strikes the primer, is it "dished" or concave? I've heard it happening on open class guns that are shot with lots of very high pressures rounds before. Unlikly with you being a new reloader or the gun being shot with regular ammo.
    I've reloaded thousands of Federal 9mm, never had a problem with it and kinda prefer it to the Nato headstamped Winchester floating around.
    What primers are you using?
    As a side note 4.4gr of titegroup is slightly above max with lead but plated can be safely pushed a little harder. A friend uses that load in his M&P with Berrys and the accuracy results are not that good. He gets some eratic patterns. I would back off to around 4.0. As long as the cases are ejecting and the slide locks back after the last round you are good.
     
  15. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    How many times have the cases been reloaded. No I do not keep an exact count of my 9mm brass , maybe I should, but approximately.

    Are they really old and used many many times?

    Try some new or once fired brass and see if the problem continues.

    I would blame the Glock and throw that away:D
     
  16. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    Try this. Take one of the cases that lost a primer. Try inserting a new primer with your fingers. If the primer goes in, the pocket is too big. If the primer won't go in, use your priming tool and seat a primer in the suspect case and a primer in a case that didn't lose a primer. Is there a big difference in the pressure required?
     
  17. Jesse Heywood

    Jesse Heywood Member

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    Here are primers fired in a Glock. Thanks to BDS.
    Normal Glock striker indents in the front and light striker indent in the back (all primers ignited)
    [​IMG]
     
  18. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    Thanks for the ideas. I will report back after work.
     
  19. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    What primer are you using? They could be undersized too. I use a Lee primer seating tool, so I would IMMEDIATELY notice any variation :cuss: in primer seating pressure.
     
  20. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    Swaging won't shrink the pocket, but it might help get it back to being round.
     
  21. mudmanfloyd

    mudmanfloyd Member

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    CCI small pistol primers.
     
  22. Merle1

    Merle1 Member

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    I wondered if perhaps the were one of the imports.
    Have you miked them so see if they are proper diameter? Mistakes happen. :uhoh:
    Did you try to hand seat a primer as suggested above?
     
  23. Master Blaster

    Master Blaster Member

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    Probably a silly question, but did you Weigh the charges your lee powder measure is throwing on a Scale or are you assuming they weigh 4.4 gr because that is what the cavity size should be throwing???
     
  24. sexybeast

    sexybeast Member

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    That is also what I use and unless you want to alter/modify one of the discs I would say no you can't. There is an adjustable contraption Lee makes for the powder disc measure but I have had mixed results with it. With Titegroup you may just get it to work.
     
  25. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I didn't see anyone mention it yet, but?

    This could be high pressure caused by bullet setback during feeding on the ones that dropped the primers.

    Make sure your case neck tension is as it should be.

    Make sure your expander isn't any larger then .352" or so.

    Make sure your taper crimp is no smaller then .376" when measured at the case mouth.

    Sized cases come out of my RCBS sizing die at .372" O.D. at the case mouth.
    After expanding they are still .372".
    My expander measures .350" and actually doesn't expand at all.
    It's just a guide for the belling portion of the expander.


    You can test for set-back by marking a line with a Sharpie around the bullet case mouth joint and repeatedly chambering the same rounds several times.

    If the Sharpie mark goes inside the case?
    You are getting set-back during feeding to some degree, which will raise pressure considerably if the seating OAL goes far enough south on you.

    rc
     
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