MN: Police urge calm in wake of shooting of teen

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http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/10/25_williamsb_killing/



Police urge calm in wake of shooting of teen
by Brandt Williams, Minnesota Public Radio
October 25, 2004

Police-community relations in Minneapolis are once again strained after the shooting death of a black teenager by a police officer this weekend. According to police accounts, Courtney Williams, 15, pointed a gun at a police officer before the officer shot and killed him. The weapon police found near Williams was a pellet gun. Family members of the dead teenager and some of his friends who were with him that night are critical of the police officer's decision to use lethal force. Police officials are investigating the shooting and are asking for community members to remain calm.

Minneapolis, Minn. — It was just after midnight Sunday when police officials say officer Scott Mars, a seven-year veteran, responded to 911 calls from a north Minneapolis neighborhood that a young man was carrying a gun. The police believe Courtney Williams fit the description of the suspect. They say Mars told Williams to drop the gun. And they say Williams started to run, then stopped, turned and pointed the gun at officer Mars. Police spokesman Ron Reier says it was dark and the officer had to act quickly.

"This is shortly after midnight. It's very, very dark. Officers can't tell age. Not that age makes a difference once you have a weapon. And then, what looks like a gun is pointed toward the officer. The officer shot," according to Reier.

Williams was pronounced dead at 1:25 a.m., at a nearby hospital. The gun they found was a pellet gun. Reier says it resembled a .45-caliber handgun.

Reier says the incident is a tragedy for all involved. But he says police officers have a duty to use whatever force necessary to protect the safety of themselves and others.

"Officers are not taught to kill a person. Officers are not taught to shoot a person so they die. Officers are taught and trained to stop the threat."

There have been several officer-related shooting deaths in Minneapolis over the last four years. Last year, Walter Collins, a suspect in a drug deal, was chased and shot dead by officers in north Minneapolis. His death sparked an angry reaction that led to federal mediation between a group of community activists and the police department.

As a result of the mediation, a group called the Police Community Relations Council was formed. The council is made up of activists and police personnel. Their charge is to make sure the mediation agreement is being followed.

"Right now there's the police department's account, and there are some other kids who were out there who were saying he didn't have a gun," says Rev. Ian Bethel, a co-chair of the council.

Bethel says he's also heard people saying that Courtney Williams was shot in the back. However, he says police chief Bill McManus told him the teenager was shot in the forehead and chest. Bethel says he's willing to take McManus' account that the teenager was facing the officer at the time of the shooting.

Bethel admits that children need to be taught that they shouldn't be running around with guns and that they should obey police officers. However, he has concerns, along with friends and family members of the deceased about the shooting, such as -- why did the officer shoot Williams in the head and chest? He says he wants answers from the officers on the scene and he wants them quickly. Bethel says the longer the police take to release information about the shooting, the more likely community members are to think the police are hiding something.

"That's one of the things that I pushed for in the mediation process. Get the information out immediately. The sooner you do, the better for all parties involved. But especially the family," says Bethel.

Despite his questions about the case, Bethel says he believes McManus is doing the best he can. He says McManus has talked with people close to the family and has released some new information about the case. However, Bethel says McManus has asked for that information to remain private. Bethel says the chief might get some heat for doing so, but he says it's a gesture that reflects the chief's desire to prevent this tragic incident from tearing apart the already fragile relationship between the police and the black community.

I sent them this:

"However, [Bethel] has concerns, along with friends and family members of the deceased about the shooting, such as -- why did the officer shoot Williams in the head and chest?"

This is a common refrain among those not familiar with police training, procedures and the reality of shooting with handguns.

Police officers are taught -- and are usually REQUIRED -- to aim for what is called the "center of mass," or, essentially, the torso of the targeted person.

There are two very good reasons for this: the torso is where a hit is most likely to cause a suspect to stop what he is doing, and it is the largest area on a person's body.

Shooting a gunman in the leg or arm may not stop him from returning fire, and that is the main goal in shooting a suspect -- neutralizing the deadly threat to officers and others.

The "largest area" concept is vitally important. There is great inherent difficulty in making an accurate shot at any range with a handgun, especially under stress, against a moving target, and at night.

The NYPD has an ongoing study called SOP9 (see http://www.pointshooting.com/sop9.htm), which examines all officer-involved shootings.

Analysis of the data shows that officers hit ANYWHERE on the target person only with 20-25% of their shots, even at close distances!

Other departments show similar numbers.

A basic understanding of the rules, regulations and realities facing police officers will greatly enhance your reporting. It's well worth the time to acquire such knowledge.

The St. Paul Police Department offers a free "Citizen's Police Academy." It meets one evening a week for six or eight weeks, and provides outsiders a broad glimpse into all aspects of police training and work. I learned a lot from this class, and highly recommend it for at least some of your reporters.

I would be happy to speak further with anyone in your organization if you have any further questions.
 
I want answers too.

Where were the parents?

Why wasn't he taught better.

Why was he out after midnight with school the next day?

What was he doing with a gun at 15, pellet or otherwise with out supervision?

Overall from what I read it was a good shoot.
 
I couldn't agree with you more, Daniel.

Any 15 year old who thinks it's o.k. to point a weapon at a police officer is seriously lacking proper upbringing.
 
Pointing *anything* at a copy is a seriously bad idea.

I've never met a cop who felt anything but dread at the prospect of shooting someone--but they're prepared to do it if the indications are that they need to.
 
The kid ran, he had an airsoft gun, it was dark. He pointed realistic looking gun at cop and got shot. I see no problem here. Pull a gun on a cop and expect to get shot.

I hate airsoft, those guns look real enough to get you in serious trouble.
 
My mother teaches in the local high school.

According to the kids, the victim was hanging out with a group of other kids, and an older kid came up and started pestering them with the air pistol.

The police showed up and everybody ran.

According to the kids both the older kid with the air pistol and the kid who was shot were wearing red sweatshirts, and both were running through the backyards, but the kid who was shot did not have the airpistol.

Did the police see one kid in a red sweatshirt carrying a pistol, then later see another kid in a red sweatshirt and assume he had the pistol when he turned around?

The police say they recovered the air pistol, but didn't say how close it was to the body. Could the first kid have thrown it down? Or, for that matter, could the second kid have picked it up after everyone started to scatter? If he had the other kids might not have known.

I see a number of mistakes here, but they're all on the part of the kids and/or their parents.

They should not have been wandering around the neighborhood at that time of night. There are curfew laws for a reason.

And when the cops showed up, they should not have run.

And finally, when a cop tells you to freeze, you should freeze.
 
I echo what other posters have said based on what's given: Clean shoot.

"That's one of the things that I pushed for in the mediation process. Get the information out immediately. The sooner you do, the better for all parties involved. But especially the family," says Bethel.

A strategy like that is an invitation for half-truth and rumor. I'd rather wait till the autopsy, interviews, and crime scene investigation are complete to release something true as opposed to bits and pieces of speculation that could conflict later. Just one of the many ways the reverand is misinformed about the occupation he's supposed to be an ambassador to.
 
A strategy like that is an invitation for half-truth and rumor. I'd rather wait till the autopsy, interviews, and crime scene investigation are complete to release something true as opposed to bits and pieces of speculation that could conflict later

Good point, but that sure doesnt stop anyone here..........pesky baby shishkebobin' coed croakin' thugs........

What exactly is a jackboot anyway? Would a female cop wear jillboots?
 
I hate airsoft, those guns look real enough to get you in serious trouble.





I must have missed it, but where on the article does it say that it was an airsoft gun? All it says is "pellet gun that resembled a .45 caliber handgun," and if I recall correctly, Daisy makes a 1911 replica that shoots pellets/BBs. Let's not be too quick too blame airsoft when we don't know that that's the case.
 
All cops are trigger happy animals, these killers should be prosecuted.

WildjbtsAlaska

You cannot seriously believe every law enforcement officer is a "trigger happy animal". Talk about sounding like a Democrat - sweeping statements with no basis in truth, and insulting huge numbers of people for no reason, for the actions of a few. I might as well say all Alaskans are hopeless homosexual pedophiles, simply because I have 2 in my unit,( which is sex offenders, and yes, these two are from Alaska.), which "proves" my point, yes?
Do you shoot every cop you see, just so they don't get "trigger happy" with you?

Eyewitness reports from minors is unreliable evidence at best. I want hard physical evidence, like we are not likely to see, not being directly involved. As it stands, with what little info we do have, it looks on the face of it to be a justifiable shooting. See what they do, IAD, DA, etc.
 
What was he doing with a gun at 15, pellet or otherwise with out supervision?

Fifteen years old is old enough if they were taught right. We were taught how to handle weapons in grade school. We grew up with guns in the corner and ammo in the closet.

This kid's parents screwed up and now their son is dead.
 
You point a gun at anybody, cop or not, without a damned fine reason and you wind up getting shot -- it is no ones fault but your own.

"I didn't kill you. You killed yourself. All I did was carry the bullet for a while."

--Captain Malcolm Reynolds
 
According to police accounts, Courtney Williams, 15, pointed a gun at a police officer before the officer shot and killed him. The weapon police found near Williams was a pellet gun. Family members of the dead teenager and some of his friends who were with him that night are critical of the police officer's decision to use lethal force.
The smallest spark can spawn the largest inferno. Weild your flint carefully, or dont weild it at all.

Feel free to use that as a sigline. ;)
 
That happens here in Chicago all the time. The parent usually goes on TV crying and says, "Why couldn't they have just shot him in the leg? He was a good kid."

Those people don't understand what it was like for those LEO's to be put into that situation. I'm sure a lawsuit will come shortly.

Don't they think the LEO's feel absolutely horrible about shooting a kid and later finding out that it was a BB gun?
 
Jdege:

I agree with everything except
They should not have been wandering around the neighborhood at that time of night. There are curfew laws for a reason.

I agree they should have stopped when the cops told them to (in this case, a reasonable request). I agree that pointing things--any things--at a cop is a Darwin-class Bad Idea (TM). But I don't agree that they shouldn't have been there at that time, and that curfews are the answer.

If they're doing something wrong, fine; bust 'em, and bust 'em hard. But, last time I checked, there was something in the First Amendment about "the right peaceably to assemble" not being infringed. If they were doing something wrong, obviously, they were doing something wrong, but just being there at night is not prima facie evidence of wrongdoing. Consider: a black man in a wealthy white neighborhood at night: should he "not be wandering around the neighborhood at that time of night?"

I understand what you mean (I think), but be very careful with your words; you never know when somebody with an axe to grind will use them against you ("See? Right-wing gun nuts think that people should only be allowed in certain places at certain times!").

For the record, it sounds like a good shoot to me, based on the news reports, and a particularly good performance under less-than-ideal conditions.
 
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