mobile homes and guns

[kingpin008]

This statement does not make sense as frangible 45 ammo isn't any better than using birdshot.

How do you figure that? Frangible pistol ammo is specifically designed for situations where the chances of overpenetration are high. They're made to pass through soft targets (like bad guys) and disintegrate when they contact hard ones (like doors, walls, etc)

Bird shot, on the other hand has none of those characteristics, while possessing questionable man-stopping capabilities.

If number 4 or 6 will kill a pheasant at 45 yards, then I would suspect at HD distances, it will perform admirably, especially into the face, neck, groin or knee area

No offense, but I'm going to need a little more evidence of bird shot being an effective man-stopper than the fact that it'll drop an animal the size of a house cat.

 

[oneounceload]

Frangible ammo disintegrates upon impact, not after it passes through a selected target. A body, made up mostly of liquid, is a harder target to penetrate than a static door.

If the payload can reliably drop your house cat, aka pheasant, moving at 45 mph at 45 yards and drop him like a rock, I do suspect that at 15 FEET - especially as I mentioned - hitting him in the face, neck, groin or knee - will immediately stop that intruder.

Don't agree? fine with me.........I use a handgun with a 12 gauge for backup, it has 00 buck...........but I do not live in a MH as the OP was asking about. Having lived in one at other times, you can punch your fist through most interior walls without a scratch, and the exterior walls are thin as well.

Most likely, for him, a 30 carbine would be best

 

[JerryM]

At the ranges inside a mobile home shot, and I would probably go with 6 or 4, would be very deadly. I recall as a teen needing to get a shed to collapse. I used small shot and shot the 2x4s. If you would see the damage at short range you would not be concerned about stopping power at the ranges we are talking about.
Jerry

 

[kingpin008]

Pardon me, I mis-spoke. I realize that frangible rounds will disintegrate in a target harder than they are, regardless of what that target is.

The point I was trying to make is that if you hit with a frangible pistol round, it'll break up in the badguy and hurt him. If you miss, it hits a wall or door and disintegrates. No problem.

If you miss with a shotgun blast (even partially) those pellets will continue on (and very possibly through) whatever it hits next.

To me, that's a pretty significant difference.

 

[ball3006]

Then don't miss..................................................or, practice until you won't....chris3

 

[kingpin008]

Then don't miss or, practice until you won't.

Agreed. Unfortunately, that sort of practice isn't practical or affordable for most people. Training for accuracy in a violent encounter often involves more than just busting clays or punching paper at the range. It'll help, but everyone reacts differently under stress.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Spend 2 bucks and get a BEWARE OF DOG sign and put it on your door. The potential thieves will just move on to the next trailer.

 

[moonpie]

my choice of birdshot was influenced by Ernest Hemingway.
In 1934, Hemingway reported on the hazards of leopard-hunting for Esquire in the following dramatic terms: "Philip Percival [who lead him on his second safari] ranks leopard as more dangerous than lion for these reasons. They are nearly always met unexpectedly, usually when you are hunting impala or buck. They usually give you only a running shot, which means more of a chance of wounding than killing. They will charge nine times out of 10 when wounded, and they come so fast that no man can be sure of stopping them with a rifle.

"They use their claws, both fore and hind, when mauling, and make for the face so that the eyes are endangered, whereas the lion grabs with the claws and bites, usually for the arm, shoulders or thigh. The most effective stopper for a leopard is a shotgun and you should not fire until the animal is within 10 yards. It does not matter what size shot is used at that range. Birdshot is even more effective than buckshot as it hangs together to blow a solid hole. (Mr P took the top of the head off one once with a load of number sevens, and the leopard came right on by and on for 15 yards. Didn't know he was dead, it seems. Tripped on a blade of grass or something, finally.)"

 

[kingpin008]

Spend 2 bucks and get a BEWARE OF DOG sign and put it on your door. The potential thieves will just move on to the next trailer.

Maybe. Maybe they'll keep an eye on your place and realize that you never seem to buy any dog food or take it for a walk, and realize that you're bluffing.

my choice of birdshot was influenced by Ernest Hemingway.

While Hemingway was a great writer, I'd personally rather base my choice of weapon on someone a little more familiar with the realities of self-defense against human adversaries.

And honestly, the paragraph you quote isn't exactly a ringing endorsement - if an animal continued to come at them for another 15 yards after having it's head blown apart, that's a bad thing. Translate that to a violent encounter with a human, and you're talking about shooting the person only to have them retain enough strength to get at you and possibly do damage before they drop.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Unless the perp is hopped up on some serious drugs (which is not all that unlikely) being shot by anything short of a Daisy Red Ryder is gonna hurt and possibly make them stop and rethink their decision. A face full of 7 1/2 shot is going to ruin anyone's day, even if it isn't fatal. Just ask Dick Cheney's hunting buddy.

 

[moonpie]

"after having his head blown apart" the cat seems to have lost interest.

 

[Tomcat47]

This one is kinda puzzling...

Who in there right mind thinks bird shot from a 12 ga. would not be effective at the range of a typical room width...say 15 - 20 feet!

I have .38 special and 9mm handguns mainly for HD, with a Winchester 1300 pump 20 guage at the ready with 2-3/4" Federal Premium 4 shot in it.

I would not at ONE second doubt (because I Know) what the 1300 would do to target at the range of 20 feet!

New carpet! New Wall!, Possibly new Door, and Definately without a shadow of a doubt....Will Need A New Bad Guy!

And the neighbors will only be wandering what happened next door?

 

[jbkebert]

A little off subject. For those who think bird shot is ineffective on anything but sparrows consider this. A buddy of mine who has a buffalo ranch heard a bump in the night. He got up and grabbeb his 20ga pump shotgun and headed out to the barn to see what was going on. He finds a 1,000 # plus buffalo had gotted into the barn and was helping himself to sacks of grain. So my buddy fires a shot into the air to scare the buff off. Well things didn't go as planned. The buffalo charged him. He side steps and puts a 7 1/2 birdshot load into the buff's shoulder. From a distance of about 10-12 feet. The result one dead buff in the yard by the barn.

The wound channel was pretty nasty and the shotshell wad was buried in the buff's shoulder. If it can do that kinda damage just think of the 125# tweaker trying to rob you in the middle of the night. I have a hunch it just might do the trick.

 

[kingpin008]

"after having his head blown apart" the cat seems to have lost interest.

Yeah, but:

Mr P took the top of the head off one once with a load of number sevens, and the leopard came right on by and on for 15 yards

Note the bolded bit. I'm not necessarily saying that birdshot is never useful for self defense, but if you're going to choose to use it based on something Hemingway wrote, don't cherrypick the bits of his writing that you think best support your choice.

 

[Ironclad]

Considering how fast leopards are, I dont feel like 15 yards is an unacceptable distance to take one down. It could cover that in a second or so.

Birdshot seems like a pretty good choice to me at real close ranges.

 

[moonpie]

Yeah, but:



Note the bolded bit. I'm not necessarily saying that birdshot is never useful for self defense, but if you're going to choose to use it based on something Hemingway wrote, don't cherrypick the bits of his writing that you think best support your choice.

you can't compare a leopard to a man . a leopard eats things that could kill a man. hemingway was a great author because he lived the life he wrote. he was not the sort of man to risk his life on some whimsical gimmick but would listen to and follow the advice of those he respected who happened to have some experience with the subject. i quoted the entire text available to me including the last sentence. my point was that i listen the advice of those whom i respect that have more knowledge and experience than myself. you then edited to suit your view and i "cherrypicked" off you

 

[kickbacked]

use double ought buck. shoot for the chest of the intruder. Practice low light situations where you pick the gun up off the ground and shoot as fast as possible at distances you would expect to encounter in your home. If possible maybe get some kind of night sight setup on your weapon. or throw on a laser. i realize most people dont like lasers on guns because of the whole tacticool thing but if properly set up it could make aiming at a target at night easier and youll know your rounds are going where your shooting. If your shots are on target you shouldnt have any problems with errant rounds killing innocent people. a quick drawing of the setup of your trailer could help with some suggestions and also locations of where people are sleeping in your house. so we could determine proper shooting lanes

 

[WeedWacker]

Two things, one well thought out and the other kinda spontaneous and probably not a good idea.

1) Is there any way to use materials to build up your walls to make it more energy absorbent like extra insulation or placing materials against the wall to prevent penetration. Even setting up a shooting lane with a likely backstop where an intruder will probably be. I have seen .40 S&W hardball from a 3" barrel enter a cardboard box with synthetic stuffing and not exit the other side. I doubt a #4 pellet would carry the same energy as something over 120 grains.

2) Spontaneous: What about a .410 pistol with #4 bird shot at ranges under 7 yards? Or even the PDX ammo? It would probably take a couple shots to stop a determined person, but just to throw that out there. Shorter barrel so less velocity, less momentum, less penetration. The FBI standard is not the be all end all, it's the ideal not the minimum.

 

[BHP FAN]

according to the late Gen Julian Hatcher, size of shot at close quarters didn't really matter as whatever the size shot at fifteen yards they all left a ''bloody rat hole''.

 

[oldvet53]

I used to use a 1929 Belgium Browning pump my Grandad passed to me but it got so I could not shoot 3 shots without messing my back up worse than it already is so I passed it to my Grandson and now use a Mossberg 500 in 20 ga. they have got the power now of what a 12 ga. does with the most modern ammo and the 20 doesn't kick near as bad as that old Browning.

 

[buck460XVR]

We're talkin' SD inside a mobile home, not a shootout with Indians circling the wagons on their Paints.

Anyone that does not think a 2oz load of 4s or 5s delivered to the head or COM of a bad guy within the short distances found inside a trailer will not stop them, has been smokin' something similar to what the crackhead intruder has. Altho the shot may penetrate the walls of the victim's trailer and possibly the neighbor's, odds are by then it will not have enough power left to break the skin of the neighbor's cat. I too have my 12ga 20'' pump sitting next to the nightstand loaded with 3'' turkey loads. In a true SD scenario, the longest shot possible in my home(two story Victorian) is 7 yards. I doubt that unless I'm attacked by a hoard of zombies, that I'll ever be undergunned when it comes to the defense of my home and family within these parameters.

 

[ball3006]

If you cannot, or will not, practice to become proficient with a firearm, then you shouldn't own one........chris3

 

[BIGGBAY90]

Although birdshot is not as lethal as buckshot, even at close range, it may make sense for home or apartment defense where the opportunity exists to injure or kill innocent people behind thin walls in adjacent rooms. For defending a single family home, buffered by land, 00 buck is preferred. The choice for birdshot loads is BB or #4 birdshot. Stopping power I THINK WILL BE REASONABLE

 

[hermannr]

To anyone that doubts the effect of birdshot, I challange you to build a 24"X24" box out of plywood or OSB. Fill that box with old phone books or wet newspaper, mount it securely and dump a load of birdshot into it at 20 feet or less, then tell me that load would not kill whatever it encountered.

I care not whether it is a 12ga or 20ga, 2 3/4" or 3 1/2" at that distance makes no difference. Use any shot 7 1/2 and larger (I have not tried this on smaller shot sizes) , the penitration and distrabution will definatly get your attention.

My shotgun is 12 ga, has a 20" cyl bore, and every single pellet will be within 12" of the 24" box. 15" is about the width of a mans chest, think about it. That is what you want, nothing going out and endangering the guy in the next house (mobile home), but if you want to stop a home intruder with as little collateral damage as possible, bird shot works well.

 

[Sam1911]

If you cannot, or will not, practice to become proficient with a firearm, then you shouldn't own one........chris3

Not quite sure what the point is with this.

Many of us train pretty regularly. And for most of us it tends to reinforce the understanding that stressful, dynamic, hostile situations produce stray rounds -- even for the most well-trained. Good to think about that when assessing your armed response.