Model 29-2 questions

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R-Tex12

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Hello, all -

I recently acquired a 29-2 (my first .44 Mag) and shot it for the first time last Friday. When ejecting the fired cases, I noticed that the outsides of the cases seemed very dirty, much more so than the fired .357 cases from my 686. Also, on one round, I felt a mild sting when something blew back onto the right side of my face - felt like it might have been a particle of burnt powder. Is this normal or possibly a sign of a problem?

Also, does anyone have an idea of the date of manufacture for serial number N227XX?

Thanks in advance for the help.

R-Tex12
 
Tex, what sort of ammo are you shooting? Very light loads often don't develop enough pressure to force the brass to seal the chamber. The proper term for this sealing is "case mouth obturation". In this case, you get a lot of blowby past the case, and they will appear blackened or scorched. If you are shooting full-tilt-and-boogie .44 magnum ammo, then you have a different issue, possibly related to ammo or revolver timing. Let us know how this turns out.
 
Looks like made tween 1970 and 1972.

Agree with Hutch's post.

I would check the timing before shooting.
I do that with any gun new to me.

Sam
 
Thanks for the quick replies, Hutch and C.R. Sam!

I was shooting the full-tilt-boogie loads - Winchester 240 gr 44 mag. I checked the timing by both the Surefire flashlight and the brass rod methods as described in the "Revolver Checkout" float and, as nearly as I can tell, the timing seems good. There is a maximum gap of about .009 between the back of the forcing cone and the cylinder face with about .006 of front to rear movement. Isn't that what is called "end shake"? With no rearward pressure on the cylinder, the gap is .003.

Thanks also for the explanation of case mouth obturation Hutch; I've seen the term several times, but wasn't sure of its precise meaning. (Can you tell I'm a newbie? ;))

Mr. Sam, thank you for the birthday info and the advice to check the timing.

I'm waiting for a conversion kit & dies for my Dillon 550B. I'll load up some light loads and see what the results are.

Thanks again for the info; it's really appreciated.

R-Tex12
 
In addition to the comments above, let me add that some ammunition is dirtier than others, some brands of brass more malleable than others, and most revolvers prefer some loads over others.

Loading your own ammunition is the ideal way to find the most accurate light, medium, and heavy loads for your individual gun. I predict you'll find some are dirty, some clean, some...

The model 29-2, by the way, was a dandy gun. Congratulations!
 
There is a maximum gap of about .009 between the back of the forcing cone and the cylinder face with about .006 of front to rear movement. Isn't that what is called "end shake"? With no rearward pressure on the cylinder, the gap is .003.
Click to expand...

I think you have found the problem. 0.006" end shake is way too much. The maximum allowable is around 0.002". There are two ways to fix this. You can send it back to S&W and let them fix it and they will probably give the whole gun a good inspection and replace any worn parts. Or, you could find a good gunsmith who is familiar with the big S&W's and let him fix it. With 0.006" endshake, every time you fire the gun, the cylinder is pounding the recoil plate a little more and worsening the problem.
 
Something else that you might check is the forcing cone. I was a
dealer for many years before my retirement and during the period
in which the -2 revolvers were made, I had several that did not have
a forcing cone and would spit lead at every shot. This was what was
known as the Bangor-Punta or Pepsi Cola generation. Quality control
was unheard of at that time. I even had a Model 66 that would not fire
right out of the box. Took the side plate off and found a lump of some
kind of wool like fiber in the trigger mechanism. Things are better now.
I also agree with the posts stating that weak ammo could be the seat
of your problem by not obturating the case in the cylinder. Let us know
what you find out.
 
Thanks, everyone, for the additional hints and comments. It looks as though the forcing cone goes to a depth of around 3/16 to 1/4 inch or so per my calibrated eyeball. Is that about what it should be?

I think I'll pay a visit to a local 'smith to see about getting the end-shake taken care of. Depending on what he says, I may trade it toward a nicer one as it does have several small spots of rust and is not quite as nice overall as I'd hoped it would be. (Bought it on gunbroker.com)

It's a great bunch of folks here on THR, btw. I'm really grateful for everyone's help & input.

R-Tex12
 
face with about .006 of front to rear movement. Isn't that what is called "end shake"?
Click to expand...

,006" is WAYYYYY too much end shake, especially for a .44. The spec is zero to .001". When it gets to .002", there are end shake washers that can be installed. That much excess travel allows the cylinder to get a "running start" on recoil and it will beat the hell out of the recoil shield.

FWIW" dirty outside of the brass means they are not sealing against the cylinder walls at discharge. make sure the cylinder tubes are mirror clean. I would wager somebody has shot .44 special in it and left the infamous burn ring at the end. The longer magnum rounds extend into it and that keeps the case mouth from expanding and sealing against the cylinder walls as it should.
 
Here's the "Rest of the Story": Better late than never, I hope!

Just got back from the range, All the problems seem to have been solved.

First, I took the Model 29 to a "gunsmith" and left it to be checked out. $22.50 later (I know: That's not much in the way of tuition :) ) I picked it up and it seemed to have the same amount of endshake. I was derelict in not having my feeler gauges with me. Anyway, I got it home, stuck the gauges in it and (surprise) the amount of endshake was unchanged from when I dropped it off.

Took it back and the alleged gunsmith wasn't there, so I left it again. Picked it up a few days later along with a note which read, "Gun checks out OK if end shake reduced any more, gun will not function".

This didn't seem right, so I invested in Kuhnhausen's S&W Revolver Shop Manual and some .002 Cylinder End Shake Bearings from Brownells. This is the course of action I should have taken first. Lo and behold, two of the bearings - washers, actually - took all the play out.

I soaked a bronze brush wrapped with a patch in Hoppes #9 and chucked it up in a drill motor. Spun the sodden brush/patch in each chamber at very low revs and this took out all the grunge.

Voila! No more dirty cartridge cases and no more endshake.

Thanks again to all who offered advice and suggestions. Can't say enough positive things about the Kuhnhausen books. They seem to be awfully good value. Not only do they show you how to evaluate/fix problems, they can also expose BS artists masquerading as gunsmiths.

Thanks again, everyone.

R-Tex12
 
That sting you felt to your face is a reminder to always wear safety glasses while shooting. Hope you like your Model 29 as much as I like mine.
 
"I was a
dealer for many years before my retirement and during the period
in which the -2 revolvers were made, I had several that did not have
a forcing cone and would spit lead at every shot. This was what was
known as the Bangor-Punta or Pepsi Cola generation. Quality control
was unheard of at that time."



I agree about the Bangor-Punta generation, but wasn't the 29-2 manufactured before that time? With the B-P takeover came the 29-3, with no recessed chambers, barrel pin or Bright Blue finish available. The 29-2 differs from the earlier versions chiefly in not having the upper sideplate screw or the screw in front of the trigger guard, so it is a "three-screw". I have a 6 1/2" nickel plated 29-2 myself; it is one of the most prized in my modest accumulation. :)
 
I have owned several bangor-punta Smith & Wesson revolvers and loved them all.
29, 25 (2x), 28, 57 (3x), 58 (2x), 36 (4x) 37, 60, 19, 13, 17, 51.

The only dash number I remember is my 29 was a -2 because my 3" Lew Horton was a -3.
 
It would help folks if you'd post the name of the "gunplumber" you bought lunch for. :)
Click to expand...

Don't know his name, but he's at a shop called "The Gun Doctor" in Longview, Texas. As I understand it, he's the former owner and recently sold the shop to the present owner and is staying on for a year or so as the 'smith.

While I was disappointed with the gunsmithing services, I'm favorably impressed with the gunshop itself and with the new owner. He stocks quite a bit of used stuff at good prices. I picked up a set of very lightly used Dillon pistol dies for $25, for example. You can find used presses, sizers/lubricators, and so on. There's also quite a variety of new and used rifle & pistol brass. He seems happy to order just about anything you need and his prices are competitive.

I'll continue to buy stuff there, but will pass on the 'smithing services.

R-Tex12
 
In the late 70s I was very involved in handgun metallic silhouette shooting. We hade problems of the 29s spitting , that is, the end of the barrel would shave off a bit of the bullet and it would come backward . At that time S&W redesigned the forcing cone , changing the angle. I had mine redone and that cured the problem.
 
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