moon clip without tools

[CLP]

How difficult is it to add/remove cases to/from moon clips without the use of specialized tools- ie., by hand?

The new Redhawk 357 I have came with 3 and I've never used them before- only speed loaders up to this point.

 

[ATLDave]

I have only one moonclip-fed gun, an older S&W 625. I can moon/demoon by hand (I bought a tool with the gun, but had to experiment for myself), but it is not comfortable and I feel pretty confident that it wouldn't take long for me to apply force on the wrong vector and bend the moonclip (a bent clip is generally instant garbage).

 

[cslinger]

Mooning is not bad. Demooning is a pita. At least get or make a demooning tool. Also look into Rimz clips. They are polymer moon clips that are super easy to load and unload.

 

[CLP]

Thanks- I know it might seem odd to ask that question vs. trying it firsthand- but I was at work and had some downtime. I was browsing through some bookmarks and thought the loading tool was pretty expensive and that I could buy several quick loaders for what it cost. Sent an email to Rimz to see if they were planning on making a clip for the 8 shot Redhawk- thanks

 

[cfullgraf]

The BMT Equipped moon clip tools are the cats meow for loading and unloading moon clips. A bit pricey though.

http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php

I have four different BMT tools for different gun/cartridges combinations. I wouldn't fool with anything else. I have 38 Special J-frame, 9x19 SP101, 9x19 L frame, and 45 ACP N-frame moon clip loaders from BMT Equipped.

My metal moon clips really need a tool to load or unload. There are some basic tools that work well, but not convenient or quick. It kind of depends on how efficient you want to be.

I keep a supply of moon clips loaded for each revolver and stored in a 30 cal ammo box. Handy for quick reloads sessions at the range. After returning from the range, I unload the moon clips and reload them with fresh ammunition.

I understand the polymer moon clips can be loaded without tools. I do not have any so I cannot comment.

 

[mag1911]

Never used a Redhawk moonclip but the normal 45ACP ones are very difficult to unload without some kind of tool. Sometimes that can be alleviated somewhat by using a brand of brass that doesn't fit so tightly. On the 45ACP style you can use a junk 1911 barrel (or make something similar shaped from tubing) to slide over the empty, hook the barrel hood over the edge of the moonclip and twist the empyt out.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Moon clip removal is easily done by hand with 9mm LCR, HOWEVER, the moon clip removal tool makes it great! Super fast, easy and they will load down to unload in a container with easy. Worth every penny I paid. Especially right after a range session and I have 40 of them.

 

[thomas15]

I have two S&W 929s. In the course of ownership I have put through about 15k+ rounds through the first one I have purchased, the second one I have had only for a few months but my point is my moon clipped revolvers are not gathering dust. S&W revos also come with 3 moons. I really couldn't say for sure that I have used them or if I have mixed them up with my other moons for the same revo. In all I have about 120 moons, half are the blue steel variety that are similar to the ones that come with the revo, the others are better quality and thicker. I also have a 686 that I had cut for moons. 3 revos in my stable using moons, not many buy some shooters standards, but I have at least some experience with them.

There are moon clips and there are moon clips. You can buy moons for approx. $3.00 a piece similar to the ones that come OEM. Then you can buy TKs for example and spend $10.00 each or there about. 5 minutes on TKs website you will learn that moons can be brass (head stamp) specific. So those who compete will use 1 head stamp brass and moons to go to with that brass. Those are probably going to fit way too tight to moon/demoon without tools. In fact, even with the previously mentioned high quality BMT tool they can be difficult to work.

On the other end of the spectrum the blue steel may not be as brass picky but even so when new may be a bit too tight to do without tools. Some of my blue steel moons have become lose enough after use that I can moon/demoon using only fingers though. I have seen where shooters have made demooning tools from a length of copper water pipe or an old gulf club handle. Also I have seen needle nose pliers used to moon. There are various tools sold for the purpose but those serious about shooting revolvers with moons will at some point break down and get the BMT tool, again it's pricy but 1 tool moons/demoons and does so much faster/easier than anything else out there.

ON EDIT: this is not a commercial for any product, just my personal experience. I have several tools for the purpose. I tried less expensive ways and finally had to throw up the white flag and spend the money.

 

[beag_nut]

I must give a heartfelt WOW. I never had a firm idea about moon clips in general, other than it was a potential avenue for something to go wrong. Besides, my .38's and .357's are quite adequate for what I do. But after reading the discussion on this thread I am pretty sure that I will never go anywhere near a moon clip in the future. Just not worth the trouble, especially for a handloader who is saving mucho money anyway.

 

[milemaker13]

Does a revolver need to be specifically set up to use moon clips? For example, my sp101 in .357...
And if that's the case, is the gun unable to be used with out moon clips?

 

[Jeb Stuart]

I must give a heartfelt WOW. I never had a firm idea about moon clips in general, other than it was a potential avenue for something to go wrong. Besides, my .38's and .357's are quite adequate for what I do. But after reading the discussion on this thread I am pretty sure that I will never go anywhere near a moon clip in the future. Just not worth the trouble, especially for a handloader who is saving mucho money anyway.

And after owning a revolver with moon clips, I would not want one without them. Never thought I would like them until I started using them. Now love them. Even like them more than magazines for my Semi's.
Load about 40 before a session and ready to just shoot and load.

 

[zaitcev]

And after owning a revolver with moon clips, I would not want one without them. Never thought I would like them until I started using them. Now love them.

I migrated in the opposite direction. Moon clips are great when they are good quality, in a gun that's set up for them properly, like a 625. There is a reason why they came to dominate the competitive shooting once people moved past associating moon clips with 1917s. That said, if you're not a competitor, they are a lot of trouble. In particular, they can be delicate, and their dimensions are awkward. Taurus 380 UL is a particularly bad implementation, if you want an example. The rounds wobble so much that re-loading often goes very wrong.

 

[JFrame]

I have a Governor for which I load a bagful of .45 ACP moon clips. All I've used is this uber el-cheapo tool (for de-mooning) plus a small slat of wood on the table to allow me to add a bit of additional pressure on the tabletop without marring the table (for adding cartridges to the moon clips)... Never had any problems.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

View attachment 778558

I migrated in the opposite direction. Moon clips are great when they are good quality, in a gun that's set up for them properly, like a 625. There is a reason why they came to dominate the competitive shooting once people moved past associating moon clips with 1917s. That said, if you're not a competitor, they are a lot of trouble. In particular, they can be delicate, and their dimensions are awkward. Taurus 380 UL is a particularly bad implementation, if you want an example. The rounds wobble so much that re-loading often goes very wrong.

I have been buying other than OEM from Ruger and they are not the least bit delicate. Actually hold up very well. I have only damaged about two in the past year. I am not a competitor but shoot often to the point of enjoying the clips. Not sure about Taurus, but the LCR handles the clips with ease, and can be loaded fast once you get past the learning curve and get the practice in. I have in the Past bought about a half dozen for TK. Yes they are precision and tough, but do not use them for range time just for carry.
The thing is, my clips that I use for the range, I do not overly protect them. I load them up and just toss in a nylon bag. Later will just toss back into the bag with empty shells attached and yet, no problems.

Excerpt from "Pocket guns" of which I agree totally.


Moon clips do have one disadvantage that should be covered. Moon clips can be bent to the extent that they could cause the revolver cylinder to bind. I've used moon clips since the 1990's in 45 ACP, 380 ACP, and now 9mm revolvers and have never experienced a clip so bent it wouldn't work properly so I'm not overly concerned with this disadvantage.
One last point on moon clips and the LCR 9mm is that you really don't need a moon clip to use the revolver. Part of the video review below includes a demonstration of single loading rounds into the chambers of the LCR cylinder and firing all five rounds without issue. Without a moon clip in place, you will need to manually poke each spent brass case from the cylinder much like you do with a single action revolver.
Having used speed loaders for .38 Special revolvers and moon clips, I've identified some additional advantages that moon clips have over traditional speed loaders.
- Moon clips take up less pocket space.
- They cost less.
- Moon clips require less clearance and are less likely to become stuck against the grip while reloading.
- Moon clips drop right into the cylinder and do not require that you twist a knob or push a button to release the cartridges from the loader.

Moon clips are nothing new. World Champion revolver shooter Jerry Miculek has used moon clips to good effect for decades in his .45 ACP revolvers. Here's a real mind blower. Did you know that competitive revolver shooters will send their .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolver cylinders to custom gunsmiths so they can be machined to accept moon clips? It's true. Moon clips are the fastest way to reload a revolver."

Yes it will be your preference if you do not care for Moon Clips. I like them for other reasons as well. Easy to load and take hiking or camping and placed in a air tight water proof pill box. Or just about anywhere.

 

[sean m]

I think if the clips have the groove cut in between the cartridges, like in Zaitcev post, there should be enough flex to remove the casings with ease. The old 45 acp clips did not have those cuts IIRCC.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

Here might be a good place to start. If I buy another revolver, I will send here most likely.

https://www.tkcustom.com/services/machining

 

[mcb]

Good info here. I will throw out another angle.

There is a fair functional difference between the moonclips for a rimmed cartridge revolver (38/357, 41, 44 etc) compared to a rimeless cartridge revolver (9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP etc). Sure they look and function very similar but in practice there are important difference to keep in mind.

Rimless revolvers moonclips are significantly more robust and less finicky with cartridge fit. The extractor groove of a rimless case has a industry-wide specification; SAAMI published dimension for the extractor groove so all rimless cases made to SAAMI specs are basically the same within the tolerance allotted on the SAAMI drawing. This makes pairing cartridges and moonclips far less finicky. Nearly all of my 45 brass is range pickup and spans mid 1940's to new once fired and just about every brand. I have found very few cartridges that give me an issue with my moonclips, including steel and aluminum cases. Also because of the width of the extractor groove rimless cartridge revolvers use thicker moonclips. They usually range in the .035-.040 inch thick. This makes them more robust and harder to bend than the moonclips for rimmed cartridges. It also makes them stiffer and less likely to allow cases to fall out unintentionally.

Rimmed revolver moonclips on the other hand are thinner, most range in the .020 - .025 inch thick. They are noticeably easy to bend when abused and more likely to drop a case in rough handling. Pairing cartridges to moonclip also becomes more finicky. The grove in the case that the moonclip goes into is NOT on the SAAMI drawings. There is no industry-wide accepted dimensions or tolerance for the moonclip groove. There is no actual requirement the groove even be put on the case. Blazer aluminum revolver cartridges do not have a moonclip groove, and I have found some old brass 38 Special without it also. Because of this lack of accepted dimensions (especially with 38/357) you find the some combination of cartridges and moonclips simply will not work together; either you can't get the cases in or the case fall out. This is the reason that TK Custom sells 5 different moonclips version for the S&W 627 8-shot and only 2 different version for the 625 (and those two are just a finish difference they are dimensionally the same).

And which ever type of moonclip gun you run you want your cases to fit snug with minimal wobble (but not ridged) in your moonclips. Short fat cartridges with pointy round nose bullets will always be you best, fastest, most fumble free reload.

MOONCLIPS RULE!

 

[LoneGoose]

mcb, I love those S&Ws. The picture kind of hypnotizes me.