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More than a million new high-capacity ammunition magazines flooded into California during lifted ban

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Aim1, Apr 12, 2019.

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  1. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Better get a shopping list ready, “Opportunity doesn't make appointments, you have to be ready for when it arrives.” Unknown
     
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  2. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I believe this is incorrect. You don't even have an equitable interest until the magazines are paid for (the seller could back out of the transaction with no penalty). To say nothing about the passage of title, which is the point at which the "purchase" takes place.
     
  3. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Well, what can tell you other than all the lawyers who have made statements that have an actual stake in this haven't supported your opinion.

    Those that have said anything have sided with 'bought' is when the order is placed and overwhelmingly most all of the merchants were shipping after the 'bought' deadline.
     
  4. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    From CRPA - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/happy-days-in-ca.849757/page-4#post-11102503

    "V. I LAWFULLY PURCHASED MAGAZINES DURING “FREEDOM WEEK” BUT THEY HAVE YET TO ARRIVE IN THE MAIL, AM I STILL OK TO RECEIVE THEM?

    YES! As noted in the Court’s order granting a stay, anyone who “manufactured, imported, sold, or bought” magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds during “Freedom Week” cannot be prosecuted for violating California’s “large-capacity” magazine restrictions. Assuming the individual “bought” the magazines but has yet to receive them, the Court’s order prohibits that individual from being prosecuted."
     
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  5. Aim1

    Aim1 Member

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    So, would this work for fully-automatic machine guns?
     
  6. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Yes, the time in transit is irrelevant. But the key thing is that the magazines must have been "bought" by the deadline. Merely placing an order is not a "purchase," for example, if the merchant doesn't have them in stock and is unable to ship by the deadline. As a matter of commercial law, a "purchase" is when title passes. In the usual sale with "FOB seller" terms, that would be when the item is delivered to the common carrier (placed in the mail). A "purchase" is when the risk of loss accrues.
    Sure -- out-of-state sellers are beyond the reach of the California authorities, so it's safe for them to do that. The California buyers, though, are being put in a risky position. I agree that the authorities won't be able to do much about this, at least for a while.
    What is being postulated here is that the judge's deadline has no meaning, since the magazines can be be shipped "whenever," at the seller's convenience. Not true. Magazines arriving six months from now won't qualify, even if the orders were placed within the "magic window."
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  7. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator Staff Member

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    It seems that some are missing a critical point concerning placing and order for back-ordered items.

    While there may be exceptions, places that I order from do not charge your card on back-ordered items until they have them in-hand/ready to ship. If your card hasn't been charged/debited, you haven't completed a purchase.

    You may have contracted for a purchase, but if the item isn't available and you haven't transferred funds to the seller/vendor...you haven't purchased it
     
  8. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Simply not true. Laughable.

    If that were true why wouldn't they just keep on selling standard cap mags into CA if they are "beyond the reach of CA authorities"?

    Truly laughable.

    It happens alot. States have sued out of state mag retailers before. States have sued out of state insurance sellers. States go after out of state companies often.


    Again, overwhelmingly, the retailers were shipping after the 'bought' deadline.

    I bought gas yesterday but the charge still hasn't hit my credit card yet. There's a pending charge.... but no charge yet.

    No payment has been made yet.... who owns the gas?


    Generally speaking, there are contracts written every day that transfer goods with a promise to pay later. Ownership has transferred but the seller hasn't received funds. The seller has recourse for non payment because they still an have an interest in the item per the terms of the contract.

    'Consideration' (something of value for payment) is an essential element of a sales contract however immediate payment is not required nor is it the sole determination of when something is bought as exampled millions of times a day when people buy gas with a creditcard.


    To make a catagoical statement that something isn't bought unless payment is made is a simple way to explain it.... and there is some truth to it.... but it's at minimum whoafully inaccurate.
     
  9. RA40

    RA40 Member

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    This was a similar scenario with one online seller even though the order was before the 5 PM cutoff. Their practice to charge when shipped and the actual shipping would not have occurred till next full business day being Monday.
     
  10. Ben86

    Ben86 Member

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    The entitlement of Californians never ceases to amaze me.

    I am also confused by the attitude that delaying everyone else's ability to get mags so that you can get more somehow enhances the legal victory. Whether retailer put you at the front of the line or not had a neutral effect on the legal outcome from my observation.

    That said you should get them any day of the week and good luck on your future legal battles.
     
  11. mavracer

    mavracer Member

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    It would be due to the "common use" language in Heller. Hard to say 30 round p mags aren't common when in a week there's millions put into service.
     
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  12. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Member

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    This is the part that is relevant to the Nation.
     
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  13. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    No entitlement ony part. What I was hoping for is that ppl would see the light and not take it out on the retailers because of their decision to extra support a State for 1 week.

    Some here did gladly. Youre damning the retailers. Your choice... I just hoped no one would.

    I agree that the amount of mags doesn't effect the outcome of what's happened... but it could play a positive aspect in the future of this case and others.
     
  14. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I believe arguing for normal/standard capacity magazines of more than 7/10 rounds to be "common use" should be rather easy as 7/10 round magazines are in "less common use".

    And how did states arrive at 7/10 rounds?

    Arbitrarily, which is defined as "on the basis of random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system"

    And the root word arbitrary has these dictionary meaning - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/arbitrarily
    • subject to individual will or judgment without restriction; contingent solely upon one's discretion.
    • decided by a judge or arbiter rather than by a law or statute.
    • having unlimited power; uncontrolled or unrestricted by law; despotic; tyrannical.
    • capricious; unreasonable; unsupported.

    So could it be argued that states arbitrarily choosing 7/10 rounds to limit magazine capacity was done without reason and not based on any research or study?
     
  15. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    You need to get laid dude.

    You had to wait what? An extra week to get some magazines? Was your shooting pleasure hindered in any real way or are you just butt hurt because some retailers decided to help some folks out knowing they had a very brief window to do so?
     
  16. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Well, bickering about waiting for YOUR order vs an important nuance in the fight for gun rights and suggestion that this attitude can be cured by sex , suggests to me that is time to close.

    Good for all the folks in CA that benefited!

    PS

    The ten round limit came from us having ten fingers. Just a human preference. 7 came from Cuomo in NY.
    He wanted a 5 round ban. One hand! When told that five round mags were not made for most semis, he said let’s do seven. Then NY went down the ten capacity, load seven path for a bit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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