Mosin-Nagant finally hits the barn door!!!

[Old Time Hunter]

Spent sometime at the range today work'n on four of my most troublesome rifles. I have been having one heck of a time gett'n either of my Mosins to hit consistantly within a 3' circle at fifty yards.

Today I succeeded! My 91/30 was easy, switched to big $ ammo and 180 grain bullets. Grouped within a half inch on five shots @ fifty. Brought her to the hundred yard target and placed five within an inch and a half. WOW! Went back and threw out three hundred rounds of Czech 147gr ball ammo....good riddens! Now I am going to pull the bullets out of the remaining 40 rounds of Wolf Gold 150 gr FMJs and use the cases for reloading. Both the Wolf and the Czech surplus scattered and splattered all over a 4 x 4 target, even in a test vise and laser bore sighted. Guess it did not like the ammo.

My M44 was another problem, does not shoot the Wolf or Czech stuff any better, but was marginally better with the 180 gr Winchester ammo. Went to my reloads.....150 gr Hornady Spitzers for the .303 British sized to .312" with a COL of 2.910" and placed in front of a reduced load of 34 grains of H4895. Holy Moly!!!! once the front and rear sights were adjusted, that sucker cloverleafed five shots at 50 and held within an inch and a half at 100!!! What a difference!!! Even with a reduced load, these chron'd at 2415 fps, only 250 fps slower than the factory stuff.

Wish I would have brought my camera.

 

[TheLaxPlayer]

Hmm... sounds like I should pick up a box of decent ammo for my M44. I think the bore is pretty well shot, but it could just be the cheap Hungarian light ball I've been shooting through it.

Wondering which would be better really... Mosins not shooting this ammo well, or me having a bad Mosin. A new gun is $100 or less and commercial ammo is much more expensive than this surplus (which I have 800 rounds left of).

 

[strat81]

Any idea what was up with the bad ammo? Did you put a caliper to the whole case or to the bullets? I wonder if maybe they were out of spec. What about pulling the bullets and seeing if the powder charges were consistent?

Do you handload/reload?

 

[Old Time Hunter]

Ran a one in ten test on the first five hundred of them, all measured .308 with a COL of 2.812". Did not pull the bullets on these to check powder, but did weigh the completed cartridges when measuring. All were within a 1/2 of gram of each other.

Did not weigh the Wolf, but did measure, they were consistant at .308 bullet diameter and 2.790" COL.

My 91/30 sluggs at .3105, and my M44 at .314 with a fairly rough lands, but has deep rifling. The actual bore diameter (minor diameter, top of lands) on both measured .3025".

It is amazing that by going to the Winchester 180 grain bullets made that much difference in the 91/30. I expected my home brews on the M44 to improve the performance, but am still leary of trying them on the 91/30 because of the tighter bore.

 

[ndolson]

Hmm...all my Mosins are exceptionally accurate given their age and the ammo shot through them. 3' targets @ 50 yds?

I'd say yours are all shot out...

 

[RNB65]

I just bought some Bulgarian heavy ball surplus from AIM and I'm getting softball size groups at 100yds. Plenty accurate enough for me.

 

[Im283]

Bulgarian or Hungarian shoot about the same from my 1948 M44.

I shoot poorly anyway but I can do 4 out of 5 in a softball size circle from 50 yards. Never know where the other one might go, yikes!

 

[rangerruck]

you know, it is funny about that 180 grain ammo, most of the mosins I have shot with it, really seemed to enjoy it. It makes you wonder, did their testers, 100 years ago, just screw up, and not try out heavier bullets for accuracy's sake? Because even the shorty m38's seem to really love them as well.

 

[DMK]

did their testers, 100 years ago, just screw up, and not try out heavier bullets for accuracy's sake?

Actually, the older ammo is heavy ball. Almost all surplus '54R from the 50's or older is 172gr or heavier. It wasn't until the 60's that they started using 147-149gr in a big way.

 

[fireflyfather]

I have nothing to back this up, but I suspect the comblock bean counters figured that it was more economical to save some lead on bullet weights than to try and keep MOA accuracy in a rifle meant for peasant conscripts...

 

[Jeremy2171]

Actually, the older ammo is heavy ball. Almost all surplus '54R from the 50's or older is 172gr or heavier. It wasn't until the 60's that they started using 147-149gr in a big way.

Thats incorrect.... Type "L" or M1908 ball was of the ~149grn variety, earlier bullets were of the heavier round nose variety. In 1930 the Type "D" bullet of ~172grns came into use...originally for MGs due to the longer range ballistics of the "D" round. Both D and L rounds are safe for all x54 rifles. By the 70's most production of the "D" round had ceased with production of the "L" rounds as "standard". Type "L" was standard issue for rifles and the "D" for MGs...they were used interchangeably of course and the MN rifles sights are calibrated for the "L" round.

The Russian "D" should not be confused with the Finnish "D" round (for the D-166 projectile) that weighed 200grn and had excellent long range performance and accuracy. M-39 Finns were chambered for this round but early Finn rifles (in most cases) needed the throat reamed as the D-166 bullet had an ogive farther forward than the either the Russian D or L round which the Finns used in large numbers. If you have a Finn rifle "other" than an M-39 and you attempt to shoot D-166 bullets in it you may jam them into the rifling and get increased chamber pressures....that is "unless" it has a "D" stamped into the barrel above the chamber.

 

[DMK]

Thats incorrect.... Type "L" or M1908 ball was of the ~149grn variety, earlier bullets were of the heavier round nose variety. In 1930 the Type "D" bullet of ~172grns came into use...originally for MGs due to the longer range ballistics of the "D" round. Both D and L rounds are safe for all x54 rifles. By the 70's most production of the "D" round had ceased with production of the "L" rounds as "standard". Type "L" was standard issue for rifles and the "D" for MGs...they were used interchangeably of course and the MN rifles sights are calibrated for the "L" round.

Interesting. I didn't realize both were used that early. I've never seen light ball older than 1960.

 

[Davo]

Saw this the other day, one Mosins finest moment...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCSDWM0J-L8

 

[Nhsport]

I often surprize myself when I can in a similar fashion come up with some sort or another of ammo that works reasonably well in some of my old guns that are of somewhat sorry condition. (or downright horrible condition!)
Truth be the only gun that I have ever given up on was a brand new Ruger Ranch rifle that was just a horrible POS

 

[Spiggy]

wow, that's a darn good shot

meanie slapped the dog though