I read on a previous thread that some of the Mosin Nagants that are being stamped are fake so that sellers can increase their profits tremendously. Any one here have any pictures or information that could help me distinguish between the real deal and the knock off?
Mosin Nagant real or fake?
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nwilliams
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This sounds very strange to me.
Original Mosin Nagant rifles are not that collectible at all, you can easily buy an original for under $150.
They only thing I can think is that people are faking the numbers so that the gun appears to be have matching numbers. However this would seem to me to be more trouble than it's worth since even Mosins with matching numbers are not that much more collectible or valuable.
The only other thing I can think of is that people are trying to pass off fake Mosin Nagant sniper rifles as real ones. There are reproduction sniper scopes on the market that look almost identical to the original ones. An original Mosin sniper rifle with an original scope can fetch big bucks and I can see people trying to fake them. There are knock off Mosin sniper rifles that sell for around $500 but they have reproduction scopes on them. Also the mounts on these fake Mosin sniper rifles are serialized to match the serial number on the gun to make them appear original to one another.
Original Mosin Nagant rifles are not that collectible at all, you can easily buy an original for under $150.
They only thing I can think is that people are faking the numbers so that the gun appears to be have matching numbers. However this would seem to me to be more trouble than it's worth since even Mosins with matching numbers are not that much more collectible or valuable.
The only other thing I can think of is that people are trying to pass off fake Mosin Nagant sniper rifles as real ones. There are reproduction sniper scopes on the market that look almost identical to the original ones. An original Mosin sniper rifle with an original scope can fetch big bucks and I can see people trying to fake them. There are knock off Mosin sniper rifles that sell for around $500 but they have reproduction scopes on them. Also the mounts on these fake Mosin sniper rifles are serialized to match the serial number on the gun to make them appear original to one another.
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What kind of profits can they make extra from a gun that sells for $80-$100?
Also i dont see how many people could confuse a Mosin for anything else.
You must have your guns mixed up and i think it may be the Dragunov and the PSL they were doing that with. But last i heard it was just lack of experience in recognizing what gun is what and not fake stamps. But they may have started that.
Also i dont see how many people could confuse a Mosin for anything else.
You must have your guns mixed up and i think it may be the Dragunov and the PSL they were doing that with. But last i heard it was just lack of experience in recognizing what gun is what and not fake stamps. But they may have started that.
Full Metal Jacket
member
i heard someone on another thread mention "fake stamped moisin nagants", and i asked for an explanation but haven't heard one yet.
what would be the point of counterfeiting rifles that generally sell for $79?
what would be the point of counterfeiting rifles that generally sell for $79?
What stampings are you referring to?
The Finns are the ones that are most valuable at this point. It is unlikely that any of the other Russian rifles have more value. I have seen Finnish Mosin Nagants increase in price since the import heydays when they were half the price they are today.
Sock Puppet
Member
You may be thinking of an authentic sniper version of the Mosin Nagant versus those cobbled together by the importer.
mcdonl
Member
HSO, I have a pretty rare MN... It was made in Chaterault in 1895... the rear sight is mising though, and it is just about imposible to find a replacement as it was only made for one year before they changed the style. Pretty cool to have one that us so unique though. I shoot my russian made all the time.
Jim Watson
Member
They have been made for so long in so many different places that there are bound to be some less common variants. Now that the nice Springfields and Mausers have been locked up in collections or are auctioning off for higher and higher prices, the collectors and speculators have to make up something else to get excited about. Or get you excited about to pay more for what used to be army surplus.
desidog
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I doubt the time and effort involved would merit the 20 dollar upcharge to restamp a Mosin.
However, the K98's are a different story. Perhaps someone confused the two types?
There are a bunch of counterfeit K98's: some are with recently-added Nazi stamps...others are not K98's at all, but Yugo 24/47 that are marketed (by Mitchell's, among others) as Nazi K98's.
However, the K98's are a different story. Perhaps someone confused the two types?
There are a bunch of counterfeit K98's: some are with recently-added Nazi stamps...others are not K98's at all, but Yugo 24/47 that are marketed (by Mitchell's, among others) as Nazi K98's.
JR47
Member
Taking a so-so Model 91/30, turning the bolt down, and putting a repro scope on it moves the value from below $200.00 up into the $500-600 range, as a real sniper of WWII fame.
Adding some small changes to the exterior of a Model 91/30 can also raise the price when it's sold as a Finn capture.
Possessing a real Model 1907, or a Cossack Model, can add upwards of $750 to a Model 1891.
Adding some small changes to the exterior of a Model 91/30 can also raise the price when it's sold as a Finn capture.
Possessing a real Model 1907, or a Cossack Model, can add upwards of $750 to a Model 1891.
mcdonl,
I sit corrected. You have one of the rarest MNs and an interesting bit of political and firearms history! http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/mosinfrench.asp
I sit corrected. You have one of the rarest MNs and an interesting bit of political and firearms history! http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/mosinfrench.asp
cleardiddion
Member
I'm so jealous mcdonl!
Beyond making 'snipers' I don't think there's a real big industry in faking MN's.
However, the OP may be thinking of something along the lines of Mitchell's Mausers and gotten the sort of rifle mixed up.
Beyond making 'snipers' I don't think there's a real big industry in faking MN's.
However, the OP may be thinking of something along the lines of Mitchell's Mausers and gotten the sort of rifle mixed up.
Thanks for clearing things up guys. I saw a mosin nagant at Cabelas for $175 but could not see the value in paying that much for one. Wondered why they asked so much for one when it was all rusted and their answer was not acceptable. Supposedly the rifle was on consignment and the seller wanted a certain amount plus their fee brought the price up. Rifle is still there after several months, and I walked away with crimson trace grips for my 642 instead.
mcdonl
Member
lol... tells you about my collection when a MN is my safe queen, and I cannot even afford a safe
Hatterasguy
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Why fake a $150 rifle?
The sniper versions are usually faked, but more so K98's. Buying a K98 sniper is challenging to say the least.
Mitchell's is making bank on them, did you guys see what they charge for their fake K98 sniper!!??
The sniper versions are usually faked, but more so K98's. Buying a K98 sniper is challenging to say the least.
Mitchell's is making bank on them, did you guys see what they charge for their fake K98 sniper!!??
Powerglide
Member
There are some thieves who will sell their mom's body for 50 or 75 bucks.To them I say, "you'll get yours". Period
mustang_steve
Member
The issue is in having uncommon configurations, such as the sniper, or a soviet stamped single-action nagant pistol. Fake country marks is another thing...taking a rifle that's common from one fab and passing it off as another can be rather profitable for the trouble involved.
The bulk of them are $100 cheapies, but fake a 95% or better uncommon model, and you have a hefty chunk of change for cheap.
Sure it's not Mauser price hikes, but on a gun this cheap, nobody expects that. I have seen a few models stamped to be older than they were (pre-WWI stamps on a WW2 era rifle), and seen a nagant revolver that wasn't russian made at all (a Chinese interpretation of the design) stamped with soviet marks. The first giveaway was it had a factory style cylinder in the correct bore that didn't have a gas seal, there was a number of other things, down to stamps in the wrong places, wrong stamps used, etc. How I knew is I owned a real nagant of the exact year they said theirs was...same fab theirs claimed to be too, it was almost like comparing a colt 1911 to a Rock Island.
I'm suspecting it's some newbies trying to see what they can get away with before they do it to something pricey.
The bulk of them are $100 cheapies, but fake a 95% or better uncommon model, and you have a hefty chunk of change for cheap.
Sure it's not Mauser price hikes, but on a gun this cheap, nobody expects that. I have seen a few models stamped to be older than they were (pre-WWI stamps on a WW2 era rifle), and seen a nagant revolver that wasn't russian made at all (a Chinese interpretation of the design) stamped with soviet marks. The first giveaway was it had a factory style cylinder in the correct bore that didn't have a gas seal, there was a number of other things, down to stamps in the wrong places, wrong stamps used, etc. How I knew is I owned a real nagant of the exact year they said theirs was...same fab theirs claimed to be too, it was almost like comparing a colt 1911 to a Rock Island.
I'm suspecting it's some newbies trying to see what they can get away with before they do it to something pricey.
Zombiphobia
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I dunno, but I've seen some (in BIG 5 to be exact) that were obviously not original Sniper configurations. Looked like a half-blind man with poor skills just screwed some holes and mounted a scope, crookedly too. They had it priced in the 200$ range, which made me think someone just bubba'd it(cheaply) and jacked up the price to reel in suckers.
RonE
Member
Some are rare, most are common. Check out: http://7.62x54r.net/ and you will find more information than you need to know.
I showed my like new Mosin Sniper, one of those recent imports, to a collector of sniper rifles.
In his words “It was indistinguishable from the originals”.
Which means, it could be an original, or it could be so well made that it is indistinguishable from an original.
I have another that was supposed to be a Russian “original” out of Romania. The trigger on the “original” is better.
Heck if I know.
There is no reason to believe that if they wanted to the Russians could not make new Mosin Sniper Rifles complete with vintage stamps, serial numbers, and markings. There is also no reason to believe that they did not have bunches of these things left over in warehouses.
Heck if I know.
Guess what, its fun having them.
caribou
Member
Theres ways of telling if its a real or fake (re sniper'd its fashonalbly known as)
There were certain companys that imported (and marked) "real snipers" that were Soviet reserve, there were some built in the Ukrain in the 90's and imported(and marked) and some assembled here in the US, after importaton, so you can get a wide variety of "Mosin Sniper", fake sniper and re-sniper.......... but you can look up who imported it and when, markings have to be such and such a way and such.........so They can be detected as 'fakes"or confirmed as real fairly quickly.
www.gunboards is the place to post pictures of what you have and get straight answers on anything Mosin and Nagant.
Fake Finn Sniper...that would be a trick worth big $$$
There were certain companys that imported (and marked) "real snipers" that were Soviet reserve, there were some built in the Ukrain in the 90's and imported(and marked) and some assembled here in the US, after importaton, so you can get a wide variety of "Mosin Sniper", fake sniper and re-sniper.......... but you can look up who imported it and when, markings have to be such and such a way and such.........so They can be detected as 'fakes"or confirmed as real fairly quickly.
www.gunboards is the place to post pictures of what you have and get straight answers on anything Mosin and Nagant.
Fake Finn Sniper...that would be a trick worth big $$$
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