Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by GarandMan94, Oct 18, 2019.
Keep doing that and one day the gunshop will be gone.
I generally like Mossberg and have used them for about 20 years now, although I also own Remington-brand shotguns, too.
I've no experience with the newer "Flex" system. Glancing at Mossberg's website, the proprietary "Flex" adapters, stocks, and fore-ends would seem to become costly and resulting in a box full of unused parts, if not prudent/careful.
For me, a mag-fed shotgun just isn't what I'm used to operating as I lean toward a system where I'm used to transitioning between buck and slugs (2 different types of ammo). I suppose having a mag fed shotgun could do this transitioning ok, except I'd need to be carrying a bulky, extra mag. Being mag-fed would just be a different manual-of-arms for this "shot select" drill/methodology. It's my understanding these mag-fed shotguns cannot be tube-fed and are not readily switchable from tube fed to mag fed..
Capacity is always a concern, particularly with shotguns. There are ways to extend the mag capacity of the tube; there are ammo carrying methods of sidesaddles, on the receiver &/or stock, and carrying add'l ammo on oneself. There's also transitioning to another firearm (one's 1911, in this case) should the shotgun jam or run out of ammo.
I've no experience with 20 gauge shotguns.
I used and was issued a 20" 9-shot 590A1 for many years and didn't like it compared to my personally-owned 18.5" 6-shot (5+1) 590A1. Not asked, but I also prefer ghost-ring sights, but the single bead-sighted shotgun can still work fine for me within ~25 yards. I found the 20" to be just a bit too long and heavier moving indoors and getting in & out of a vehicle. I also prefer a standard straight stock, a personal preference for 18.5" or 20" barreled shotguns (which just aren't the same as a pistol-gripped AR15 or AK47 with which I'm fine that way).
If you don't mind waiting ~50 weeks and if legal in your state, the 14" 590A1 handles very well in tighter spaces, but there's that Class III waiting period and some extra costs involved.
I've found I'm able to handle and control the slightly heavier 590A1 better than a regular 500.
Here's my recommendation, which is an 18.5" Mossberg 590A1 with ghost ring sights:
I have both the 500 and 590 A-1. Both are excellent shotguns. The 590 A-1 has a bit more capacity, but for home defense the 500 holds more than enough to get the job done.
I also run a pair of 870's as well. They are good defensive shotguns also. It's mostly a personal preference decision. But either one will serve the purpose. The Mossberg is preferred by the military, while the Remington seems a bit more popular in law enforcement. So take from that what you will.
Can save all sorts of trouble and get a Mossberg Shockwave or Remington Tac-14. Not "shotguns" but "firearms."
I'd steer you towards a basic 500 Tactical. 8 rounds, cylinder bore, no bells or whistles until you add them if you wish.
Bayonet? Just something to get stuck on. drag against or snag-up if the shotgun is ever used in its intended parameters.
I don't generally like stock-less shotguns as I lose the stabilizing of either my hip or my shoulder.
I don't generally like collapsible or folding stocks as they tend to be *snaggy* and the usual pistol grip rotates my firing hand into - what is for ME - an astoundingly awkward angle.
I like my heat shield as a heat shield only.
Sling swivels are mandatory for me as I sling shotguns A LOT. Not every time that I feel a need to have it, do I feel a need to be *hutt-hutting* around like I'm chasing narco-terrorists.
A bayonet can be quite useful...it makes a great kickstand when out shooting. Just stick it in the dirt, instant gun rack.
Best thing to do with a beater blade.
I have a 590 (not A1) and it’s set up just like yours, except in all black. Honestly, I never felt like the loaded side saddle threw things off for me. The tube is loaded with 00-buck shot and the side saddle has slugs.
They don't. I concur with jessesky's assessment of box-mag fed pumps.
I keep an Ithaca 37 with 4+1 capacity next to my bed. While I also have my PT145 there too, I am not worried about only five rounds.
Close enough to the 12 to not worry about it. Use buck from 4 to 000 and it'll do the job.[/QUOTE]
IMO, don't try to get all fancy. Just get the standard Mossberg 500. There's tons of customization gear you can get later,but for now,
just get used to shooting the 12 gauge with the standard shoulder stock. Once you have that down, then you may want to start changing to
pistol grips and longer mags and all. IIRC Hogue makes a soft pistol grip for the 500.
Wal-Mart sells the low brass birdshot @23$ a hundred, for practice purposes.
Tons of great advice here, my compliments to the posters.
I think that Thomas Edwards Lawrence said that a bayonet is a device likely to induce an injury to the person wielding it.
That said, they can be useful for guarding prisoners who might be inclined to grab a muzzle.
When it comes to 20 gauges and HD I am fortunate. Way BITD California was looking to buy 8,000 riot guns and Remington was in the bidding.
Trouble was, they needed to add an anti-jam feature to fill the bill. With only days left they turned to a gunsmith that used to be on their pro shooting team Don McClure (he was an ex cop too).
He came up with a cutaway on the bolt and that square U cut on the shell carrier that you see on the modern 870. They won the bid.
Don was an old friend. I visited him in California, and we shot together many times. He ended his days near here in Enoch , Utah at 93.
For years he worked on my guns. I brought him a Rem 870 in 20 ga and he added the anti-jam features of the big boy.
I tend to agree with Massage Aboob, .. uh excuse me,.. Massad Ayoob that no matter your size you can pump a second round out of a 20 ga faster than a 12 ga. Personally, at point blank range, I think that a 20 is sufficiently lethal to neutralize a threat.
The advantage of a 12 is that you can get, literally, hundreds of different kinds of loads. I have rounds made to start fires, control crowds, rubber buckshot and slugs for hazing bears, even anti drone bolos with hooks, and of course lead.
Whichever 12 or 20, I load one magnum 3" round and follow it up with 2 3/4" rounds so that the added kick lets you know when to reload.
If you train that way it could help.
Count me in as not a big fan of the whole box mag deal. Although I can see why Mossberg brought them out. They'll sell them by the boxcar loads. Every millennial mall ninja will want one, along with several magazines that can easily double the price of the gun.
I'm not seeing the advantage of having a big magazine hanging out the bottom. Not to mention the weight of having a box of shells in the thing. (Kel-Tec has a pump that holds a box of shells, so I put that abortion into much the same category).
But again, I understand their reason for marketing it. It's far more important for these companies to turn a profit, than it is to remain "traditional" in their manufacturing methods.
I love the Mossberg 20ga 18". And I can shoot it well with pistol grip, standard stock, or tactical stock. And I can shoot a lot of ammo in one day with no problem. I like the Ballistics for MY home defense. I find the gun very mild to shoot. Also have a rifled barrel for it. Very versatile shotgun.
I have no idea if Ayoob ever said such a thing. But if he did, it's ridiculous to think it's possible. Let alone any type of advantage. First off, the shell length is the same for a 12 or a 20. (2-3/4" or 3"). So the travel of the action to cycle another round into the chamber is identical.
Second, if his reasoning is that 20's recoil less than 12's do, that's false thinking as well. Especially in regard to most pump guns on the market today. Felt recoil in shotguns is a combination of payload vs. overall weight of the weapon.
I've fired many 20's that recoiled WORSE than the same gun in a 12 with similar loads. Simply because most 20 gauge pump guns are built on scaled down receivers and actions from their 12 gauge counterparts. In short, the 20 gauge guns themselves weigh less, so the actual felt recoil is more profound to the shooter, than from the heavier 12 gauge.
Many 20 gauge guns have been sold on this false narrative over the decades.
Post deleted. (Misread).
CM, As a fellow jew whose name is often punned I have developed a sense of humor about it however if he requests a deletion I will oblige.
I did not reference him because I DIDN'T put value upon his opinion.
In addition to the whole box magazine deal, another thing I'm not seeing any benefit to are heat shields on defensive shotguns..... Or ANY shotgun for that matter. Think about it. How many times have you burned your fingers or hands on a hot shotgun barrel?
I can't think of a better, faster way to heat up a shotgun fast, than by shooting a fast round of doubles in Trap on a hot Summer day. You will fire 50 rounds, (2 boxes), in about 7 minutes or less on a fast squad. I've done this several times, and have never burned my hands or fingers on a "hot" barrel.
Yes, the barrel(s), will become uncomfortably warm. But never so hot as to induce a burn, or cause you to drop the gun. Now, translate that into a defensive situation involving using a shotgun to get you out of it. Does anyone actually think they'll ever have to fire 50 rounds in under 10 minutes? With the possible exception of trench warfare in World War 1, I doubt it's ever been done. Certainly not in any law enforcement or civilian defensive situation.
Heat shields, much like box magazines, provide a "cool factor", and little more. While there is nothing wrong with that, they're certainly not necessary. And are just added weight, along with something that can snag on clothing, or most anything else. In addition to preventing you from wiping down the outside of the barrel, which in some climates can increase the possibility of rusting.
I have them on both of my Rock Island Armory M-5's. And thus far they have both caused nothing but issues, by sliding forward from recoil. Tightening the screws do not help. So I'm looking at either pinning the damn things into the magazine tube. Or else flat out removing them. Considering they're pretty much useless, I'll most likely do the latter.
"... I think this is going to be one of those things where i go to a gun show/shop and find what’s comfortable on my shoulder, then find a better deal online"
Thank you for noting that. I'd like to see that sentiment expressed EVERY TIME the activity noted is mentioned.
I like having the heat-shields on a couple of mine that are 00Buck dedicated as I tend to potentially be rather rough in handling them. In and out of vehicles exposed, behind doors at home and the cabin, hung on tree branches in the mountains....
Heat? Don't really care about that and in fact, if rough treatment is not an issue, I MUCH prefer the less snaggy nature of a riot-gun.
500 with heat shield, light and a few extra rounds carried on board. During practice you would be surprised how fast you can shoot through your shells. That heat shield is an asset during those times.
That picture makes my nose hurt. Are you left handed?
Not left handed. You must have gigantic nose....the shell card is easily 6 inches from my nose and does not interfere in any way.
I prefer the term "aquiline".
38 special.....I had to look it up......aquiline comes from the Latin word aquilinus ("eagle-like"), an allusion to the curved beak of an eagle.
Pretty funny, well played.
I've had a 590 marinecoat sitting behind the bedroom door for many years. I bought it before they started drilling/tapping the receivers, or else it would have a ghost ring sight on it. It goes to the range every few years to shoot some buckshot (which it shoots very low).
I live in a very low crime rural area. If I had it to do over again, I'd buy something more practical; something more useful when it wasn't on guard duty.
I 100% recommend the 500/590/88 in the 9 shot configurations, and the reliability is second to none. The 88 is the cheapest and lightest, and the 590a1 is most expensive and heaviest. The 590a1's heavy walled barrel is good for keeping the recoil down, bad for target aquisition.
You have to find the balance that suits you. I have the 500 and it's never leaving my collection, but I do wish I had that bayonet lug.
That family will never let you down.
The one in the family that would one up the rest for ME is the 590M Shockwave with some form of legal brace, detatchable 10 round mag, and 14 inch pipe. I haven't dug into the reliability because I simply am not in the market, at the moment, but the size and capacity are head and shoulders above any of the others.
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