Mossberg 500: Custom Work and Gear

[HitmanNumber86]

I have zero experience with shotguns. I've been issued M16s, SAWs, worked with Mk.19s, 240Gs, and I've handled plenty of pistols, but only recently have I been looking into shotguns. I'm not stupid I just know nothing of the subject.

I've been looking at getting a Mossberg 500 breacher. I know it's not the cheapest of the 500s but I'm attracted by the thick barrel and the meaty comp (I've always been a fan of the 'muzzle thump'). I want to deck it out with some cost effective furniture (I can smooth the rough edges), so I'm going with ATI's Top folder, heat shield, and ghost rings. I don't want a tube extension because I don't want to smash it on someone who isn't worth it.

So here's what I need help with:

1. I can't see any way of getting a pair of rails on the front end short fastening it through the gas block (I know it's not a gas block, I don't know what to call it). By the way, I have access to a shop, and the know-how I need to use it.

2. I also need a low profile rail to mount on the receiver, I want it low to slap a dot sight on underneath the folding stock. I've seen very basic rails that sit high and hang off at the rear of the receiver; These look like ****.

3. As for the dot sight, I need something with a low-profile preferably with a red halo maybe reticle, nothing special, just adjustable.

4. Sidesaddle, nothing too pricey. I've looked at several, but, in my inexperience, I don't know what to choose.

5. Sling, three-point, with a well sized shotshell holder (I'm 6'6"). There are many brands, and, once again, I have little experience. This is something I'm not stingy about. I've had ****ty slings before, I'd rather not deal with them again.

 

[Birdmang]

Hit man! somethings wrong if you need a red dot on a shot gun! all you do is point and shoot!

No jk I would have them on most of my guns but I cant get over the price.

 

[PandaBearBG]

Opt for Saiga 12.

 

[HitmanNumber86]

The Saiga feels bulky.

I should correct myself. I used to work for KCI, so I've gutted Saigas. I don't want a gas operation anyway. I wan't something I can drag though the mud.

 

[AcceptableUserName]

forget the breacher and look into a 590a1 18.5" with plain barrel and bead sight. forget the optics, get a Tacstar sidesaddle. No frills, can be dragged the through the mud and then used to beat up a rhino. I'm not going to get into a debate of folding stocks/pistol grips vs Standard stocks, if you're dead set on a folder I'd honestly go with a pistol grip ONLY, in this case a Speedfeed "chickenhead" pistol grip. still want a folder? I feel the butler Creek Protector with shell holder gives you the best looking, best functioning setup overall.


you point a shotgun, you dont aim it. therefore i believe in a bead only, rifle/3 dot sights at the most.



i like the breacher model too because it allows for an extension and is an easier take down the the 500a, but the 590 is that plus an aluminum trigger guard/safety for probably the same as you'd spend on the hyped up breacher.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I'm going with ATI's Top folder, heat shield, and ghost rings.

Bad move, IMHO. Too much of ATI's stuff is cheep, not inexpensive. The so-called "ghost ring sight/heat shield" isn't going to work- the rear sight on real ghost rings (like Mossberg's factory offering) is mounted on the receiver close to the eye, not out on the barrel ahead of the receiver. That's necessary to allow the proper focal distance to let the rear sight 'fuzz out' so the eye can focus on the front sight and center it up in the aperture without having to pay attention to the process.

Electronic sights are out of place on fighting shotguns IMHO. Course, I don't know nothin bout birthin no shotguns.

I fail to see the purpose of getting a shotgun with the 'highly advantageous top tang safety placement,' and then putting a pistol grip stock on it so you can't reach the safety without being forced to break your firing grip on the gun. Again, I'm just an old stuck in the mud curmudgeon...

Shotgun shells have no place on the sling IMHO. Don't want the weight bearing on the gun as it swings around when it's brought into firing position. Sidesaddles I like, and have yet to have any problems with the TacStar version, though everyone tells me I'm supposed to. I don't overtighten receiver screws, and I do LocTite the little screws that hold the plastic shellholder to the reciever plate. Haven't broken any, sheared off any, had any come lose so far.

If I were going to pick a pump shotgun design to drag through the mud, it wouldn't be a 500. It would be something that easily allows pulling maintenance on the magazine tube without having to unscrew the magazine tube (which is steel, by the way) from the (aluminum alloy) receiver. Have you had much experience with repeatedly screwing and unscrewing steel stuff into threaded holes in aluminum alloy components, by chance?

There are lots of ways to get rails on the front ends of shotguns. What are you looking to hang on these rails?

Don't want to rain on your parade, it's your money, your gun, your accessories and you can do whatever you want with it/them. The above is just personal opinion, it wasn't written in stone on a mountainside by the finger of God.

Best advice I can give- get a plain jane box stock riot gun. Make sure it fits you properly and has a good recoil pad on a conventional stock. Learn to run it till it feels like an extension of your arms. Then when you have the basics nailed down, start thinking about what might help you use it to greater advantage. Try one change at the time, and evaluate. Everything you add is going to have an effect on the total package, and sometimes not a good effect. One step at the time, crawl walk run.

If it matters I have used pump shotguns in sporting pursuits for going on 40 years, carried one on the street occasionally working reserve with a small town PD, carried one pulling security details here and there for a while, had informal shotgun training from a couple of generations of military instructors (who wore funny little green hats when in uniform) and paid-for professional instruction from IMHO the best fighting shotgun instructor on the planet. But I still have a lot to learn...

lpl

 

[oneounceload]

Personally, if this was MY gun for HD, (and I have one), it would wear a wood or regular synthetic stock that doesn't have parts that Mr. Murphy will deem ready to fail at the wrong moment. It would also NOT have a sling that could snag on something, let alone one laden with extra ammo that could move all around and throw my swing. It also would only need a simple bead sight for HD distances. Shotguns used for static targets like deer and turkey are aimed; shotguns used for dynamic targets like birds, clays or BGs are pointed - hence the need to ensure that it can swing smoothly and easily without being hampered by unnecessary items near the muzzle. Mine also would not wear a light - but there are only two people in my house- me and the person who sleeps next to me. Any other noise in the night is someone not welcome - although some feel a light to be necessary YMMV. Side saddle? If positioned neutrally on the action, then it can be a nice feature that is minimal regarding impact by weight or dynamics.

These are JMO. I think you'd be better taking all that money and buying ammunition and practicing

 

[RandKL]

Put all those together, weed out the opinions and the mistakes, and I agree with most of it. lol

The ATI top folder can't be used with receiver mounted sights without some serious work. There's plastic there where the sight would be and if you cut it out, the stock becomes flimsy with no lateral stability. Tried it.

The standard Mossy 500 mounting rail is a low profile, but again, it's not advisable with a top folder. http://www.ebay.com They're common.

That "gas block" is the barrel mounting lug. The space between the barrel and mag tube in front of the forearm is usually where front rails are mounted....but the breacher, you don't have enough length of open space. Standard 500's, you have about 3" of open space that mag tube clamp rails fit easily. For you to fit front rails on the breacher, you'll need to jerk your forearm off and cut two flats into it, one on either side of the forearm and then mount two short rails to the forearm itself. If you just want a light mount, machine one flat onto the bottom of the forearm. Again, done it. Many times, in fact. Easy mod.

The ATI heat shield with ghost rings is a good product. It works and it works well. Maybe not a true "ghost ring" sight but it's a good sight that works well. You can shim the back sight with paper to adjust the point of impact if you're retentive.

Shell holders....skip the straps, use solids. Straps sling around....a bad thing. Solids add weight or counter weight....a good thing.

Slings, can't help you there. I only use regular, nylon "carry it over your shoulder" slings. The tactical stuff confuses me.

rich

 

[HitmanNumber86]

I want this setup for several reasons.

1. It'll look badass.

2. I want it to be a bit of a project gun. I'm going to take a basic picatinny rail and custom fit it to the receiver with slight mods. As well, I want to machine custom forward rails. I'm actually considering building a recoil reducer to house inside the stock. I'm also going to construct a custom incognito briefcase for it.

3. This was partly derived from when I saw the 500JICcruiser with the survival kit in a can. I want a shotgun that, If I needed to, I could pick it up and run out in my underwear and be set for shooting, or yank it out of the back of my car. I'm looking to, practice, and have it ready for, tactical situations, with which I might need a wide range of shot shell configurations. If I look to hunt with it, I can always buy a solid stock, and I most likely will.

I don't really worry about the forward weight; I used to pack a SAW, and I cleared rooms just fine; I plan on a flashlight and laser, because I can't have it sit on the receiver (Wall-Body-Weapon). The ghost ring will sit back on the pistol grip when I get the adapter ($3.49). I want the dot sight, in case I need to shoot slugs, or sabot slugs, extended distances. I'll probably buy a metal safety and machine a custom cross-bolt safety. As for the sling, I see everyones point; Does anybody sell a 'removable' shot shell holder for slings? I don't mind how long it takes to clean; spending dozens of hours a month cleaning actually made it an enjoyable activity.



I'm not trying to shoot down everyone's opinions. I've considered alot of things that were addressed beforehand, and some things were brought to light, and I thank you.

 

[Dimis]

BUY ALOT OF AMMO AND DITCH THE JUNK!!!!!

seriously the folding stock your looking into isnt worth the sheetmetal its punched out on

if you want accessories look into getting a persuader or 590 put a side sadlle from a reputable company like mesa tactical and if you HAVE to have the rails Mesa can help there too as for red dots u dont honestly need one but if you MUST get one go with a reputable one like the aimpoint M4, Trijicon holo, Eotech or any other good one
the heat shield ghost ring sight combo isnt as good as factory offerings from mossberg there are better ones than what mossy offers but what your looking at is honestly waisted money

the only thing i have on my mossberg 590 is a sling thats all i find needed right at this moment
in the future i will add a light with a mesa tactical mount thats pretty much the extreme of a good HD shotgun all the bells and whistles are just extra weight and get in the way of the best tool you can own to defend your home

 

[HitmanNumber86]

Dimis, slow down. I'm not made of money. Don't get me wrong, I love a good piece of gear, but I'm gonna add those on down the road (a trijicon is way down the road). I do like the mesa tactical rail/sight/shotshell holder, thank you. The 590 is a 500 with a metal trigger group, I can install that on my own, for cheaper then getting a breacher barrel.

RandKL, The ATI folding stock is covered on top and open on the bottom when closed, with plenty of room for sights. As for the forward rails, I need to know if I can mill two pinholes in, through the barrel mounting lug, Mill spacers with slants (to lock the rails more sturdily), and screw the rails on both sides with tension (One rail with threaded holes and steel nuts). Thank's for the advice on the shell holders. I'm used to the three-point-slings from the marine corps.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

I want a shotgun that, If I needed to, I could pick it up and run out in my underwear and be set for shooting, or yank it out of the back of my car.

That is not compatible with ATI's cheap products. It's a waste to take a tough shotgun like the Mossberg 500 and cover it in cheap plastic junk. Sorry, ATI is cheap plastic junk. That's like taking your heavy duty 4x4 jeep and putting plastic Wal-Mart hubcaps on it.

 

[smithmax]

Hitman, if you are looking for a gun that you can beat up and not feel bad, you may want to look at Maverick 88's. Plus, if you get one of those you'll have more to spend on accessories! To parrot the other guys though, a lot of the ATI stuff isn't worth it's price.

 

[AcceptableUserName]

check out the Butler Creek Protector. It's a side folder with 3 shell holder. I had one on an 870 and liked it well enough, as far as inferior (as in NON-full stocks go ) setups. It's made well enough, looks really cool and will give you the sense of mobility you desire. I'd add a Mako railed forend (there's your rail/light issue solved) and a pressure switch on forend for light. The top of the 590a1's receiver is already drilled and tapped for an optic. I'd avoid the ghost ring with such a setup. please consider the 590a1 18.5" bead only gun over the 500 breacher. It's the same gun without a goofy muzzle brake and WITH an aluminum trigger housing, safety button and heavy walled barrel. It can also probably be had for the same price or cheaper because the mall ninjas aren't backordering it...only the Mossberg people who know what's desirable in a shotgun.

bear in mind a gun like I just described would not be my first choice in 75 percent of the situations one could face....but it could theoretically have it's niche...but probably not in a situation a common man like I is apt to face.

 

[RandKL]

RandKL, The ATI folding stock is covered on top and open on the bottom when closed,

Ummm, we must be talking different ATI top folding stocks, then. The one I have, when closed, is covered on the bottom, directly against the receiver top, and open on top. An accessory shell holder is mounted in the open top area. When it's extended, the closed bottom becomes a nice rounded cheek. If it were reversed, then the open stock would put two, very narrow, edges against your cheek.

richard

 

[Yo Mama]

This thread is getting a bit funny. OP, get what you want, obviously you're dead set on making a worthless investment.

 

[HitmanNumber86]

Jesus ****. I didn't think I was gonna get sass from everybody on this forum. Forget I even registered.

 

[armslist]

Most enthusiasts aren't into the cheapo firearm add-ons. If you want to go talk about how to make a shotgun that looks like this:

You're on the wrong forum.

 

[Dimis]

seriously buy ammo and practice ALOT youve already stated your unfamiliar with shotguns and as easy as it sounds to just point and shoot a 12 ga its really alot more to it than that

if your just looking to do this just to have a bunch of stuff screwed and glued to a shotgun get the maverick 88 as stated before youll save a chunk of money

as for the diff between the 500 and the 590a1 you get a heavier barrel metal trigger and saftey and a firearm that is milspec

the persuader is an in between for those that want capacity (7+1) without all the accessories (heatshield ghost sights etc...)

honestly if your looking for a project go for whatever you feel you wish to do but if you plan on staking your life on this firearm and useing it to honestly protect yourself my suggestion is ditch the "gear" buy some ammo and practice untill you can do it all in your sleep

 

[AcceptableUserName]

no ones giving you "sass". theyre sharing knowledge theyve more than likely acquired first hand. the breacher barrel is clownshoes but if looking cool is your priority, grab it. it's NOT as durable as the 590a1's by any means in any way, optics on a shotgun defeat the purpose of a shotgun (buckshot's commonly prescribed max range is 30-35 yds tops. if you cant instincitvely be somewhat accurate on a shotgun at 30 yds with some practice, hire a bodyguard) so unless you have a rifled slug barrel and are shooting top notch sabots. the optic is for a rifle, something you AIM. I've put around 1,000 rds through guns similarly equipped to what you're asking about, therefore I feel I'm at least somewhat qualified to give you an opinion on it. I ESPECIALLY don't like the ATI products, ESPECIALLY the cheesy, awful heat shield with "ghost rings". the only real option for a quality heatshield with a minimum amount of elbow grease and jury rigging is the Mossberg brand in my opinion.If you want a tacticool gun that will be USEABLE over the long haul, I suggest a 590a1, 18.5" bead sight, with Butler Creek Protector stock, Mesa Tactical 6 rd shell holder, Mako railed forend, pressure switch and light mounted according to your desire. The Mossberg receivers are usually drilled and tapped for optics. Throw one there if you wish.


if you want to make a tacticool shotgun, thats fine with me. they can look really cool and be nifty. but youre not getting "sass". i alone have answered your question twice. others have added input as well. now it's up to you to take that advice or just stop asking questions, because if you reject feedback you must already have an answer!

 

[seanie!]

If you're set on a top folding stock, have you looked at Choate? Here's a link to one for the 500. With my experience, I can say that ATI is garbage, and I would spend the extra $20 on the Choate. It doesn't have the integrated shell holder, but you said you can machine things, so I'm sure you'd be able to work something out for it.

A lot of the guys around here are more traditional, and tend to stick with the KISS and "if it ain't broke..." mentality. I'm all for that too, but to each his own. The guys are just trying to give you advice, as gruff as they may sound. More than a few have probably gone the route you have, before realizing they'd rather skip the high-speed, low-drag, tactical accessories and stick with a stripped down simple alternative. But, the way I see it, it's your money, do what you want with it.

Hopefully everyone will come around soon enough and stop putting up pictures of some guy with his car keys hanging from his gun and take questions like this seriously.

 

[Sam1911]

I'll second A.U.N.'s comment that you're not being "sassed".

Believe me, the ribbing you might feel you're getting is gentle, and intended to steer you in the right direction.

There's a certain aesthetic which may be more prevalent here on THR than other places in the web, of being "past" the tactical fan-boy craze, if you will pardon the expression. You will find here, if you stick around for a while, that folks are very focused on the most practical, effective, reasonable, "professional" way of doing things. And many of the folks here have spent, and continue to spend, a lot of time testing products or systems out to see if they really help the shooter perform a task better/faster, or not. There is also a general trend towards simplicity which goes hand-in-hand with that performance fetish. Basically, if it works and is effective, people here will embrace it. If it is junk, or it is heavy/awkward, or it is neutral but doesn't improve anything but the lightness of your wallet, it is NOT embraced here.

"Tactical" is generally used as a term of mild derision here on THR. When folks tell you to save your folding-stock and heat-shield cash and use it to buy shells and range time, they do so to help you succeed. They know, because they've been there, that you can't buy skills, can't buy speed, can't buy competency with the weapon, but you sure can buy a lot of crap that will just get in your way.

Take the advice in the spirit it was given. Don't get bitter just because someone explains how silly a door breacher is on a home defense shotgun.

And don't abandon THR just because you asked a question and didn't get the answer you wanted to hear. Chances are you got the answer you needed to hear. Which would you rather have?

-Sam

 

[Youngster]

Shotguns are at their best when they're run as a lean, mean and clean racecar of a firearm. I won't even consider useful minimalist addons like sidesaddles and extended magazines if they have more than a negligable effect on the balance and razor sharp pointability that are one of the shotgun's key strengths.

 

[Bad Hammer]

Jesus ****. I didn't think I was gonna get sass from everybody on this forum. Forget I even registered.

Nope. You can't just quit. It ain't that easy.
The shotgun section of this fine forum ain't for quitters.
If someone comes in here asking for opinions they'd better hitch their drawers up real tight, because opinions is exactly what they're fixin' to get.
Like 'em or not.
We all have different ideas as to what works and doesn't.
Go with whatever does it for you.
There is some good advice among the replies so far, but the final decision is all yours.
Set that puppy up to suit your needs and all will be good.
Just make sure it fits and feels like it should, and be sure that it performs with whatever accessories you run on it.

Shotguns are at their best when they're run lean, mean and clean......

That's the way I like 'em.

 

[bigalexe]

This guy reminds me of someone named Gecko45 or something like that. I can't wait for SpecOps to get here!