Mossberg's new Ar rifles

[CraigC]

Yes, because it is so easy to knock a detachable carry handle out of zero.

If I buy a battle rifle. I want a battle rifle.

An AR-15 ain't a battle rifle and when's the last time you went to battle anyway? The AR today is a sporting rifle. If I buy an AR, I might want to shoot coyotes with it at 200-300yds. For that, I might need a little more flexibility than was available in the 1960's.

 

[Eb1]

You might need a scope for 200-300 yard shooting, and I prefer my Harley over air conditioning, but that's just me. So your analogy of feet, shoes, point A to B doesn't really mean squat.

It wasn't meant to rain on you guys mall ninja parade. Buy what you want. All I am saying is I have shot in competition with service rifles, and you do not need all the kewl. Gimme a "battle" rifle. A service rifle i.e whatever you want to call it. Yes, to me an AR-15 is a battle rifle. I have shot deer with them, big deal. Doesn't mean they are not a direct mach up of a M-16 without the FA disconnect. Even today's M-4 do not shoot full auto. They have 3 round bursts. SO an AR-15 is just as much a battle rifle as an M-4 in my eyes. With a double release trigger you can shoot just as fast as a M-4 3 round burst.

You guys are funny today, and a bit touchy if I might say so myself.

When was the last time I was in battle? It feels like right now on this thread.

Oh! And I doubt you are shooting 2300 yards with a .223 Remington round.

I also guarantee that I can knock a scope out of zero before you can knock my A2 sights off zero. Unless you deliberately twist the sight settings. They stay where you leave them.

 

[CraigC]

It wasn't meant to rain on you guys mall ninja parade.

Sad when we can't have a discussion about this stuff without personal insults and references to "mall ninjas".

All I am saying is I have shot in competition with service rifles, and you do not need all the kewl.

Which translates to "YOU do not need scopes for service rifle competition. Probably because they're not legal. Which has ZERO relevance to the needs of other shooters. You do understand that there are other purposes for these rifles, correct?

 

[Eb1]

uh.. yeah.

I have referenced that several times, but was talked down to with reference like (You have feet to get from point A to B, but air conditioning is the greatest), or some mess like that.

All I said in my very first post was gimme a staight up A2 20" rifle for under $600.00. You really don't need the fluff, and then you guys jump on the band wagon of "zero gain", "you have feet to get from point A to B", "you obviously don't shoot varmints @ 2300 yards".

Gimme a break. Talk the ninja talk, get the ninja talk back. Get off my case about what I dig to shoot, and what you prefer. If you wanna 100 watt light bulb controlled by your cell phone on your gun ICGAFlyingFlip.

It is sad, CraigC, and you have been on other side of insult many times on thehighroad. Your slate isn't so clean. So stop pointing fingers. Get back to the discussion of the rifle, and I'll leave you all to accessorize. Nothing funnier than a shooter shooting at the range in broad daylight with a flashlight, laser, scope, red dot combination, and the target is only 25 yards away. We've all seen it, and some have been that guy. It's okay. It really is. No, seriously. It's all good.

Which translates to "YOU do not need scopes for service rifle competition. Probably because they're not legal.

True. They are illegal, but I can also shoot a rifle properly. Been trained since I was three years old. Hey. I can even shoot 10s and Xs standing with an AR-15 @ 200 yards. I bet a lot here haven't shot a rifle standing in quite sometime. I bet alot here couldn't hit the 8 ring @ 50 yards standing.

Anytime you want a little competition on rifle shooting. I am not but a couple hours from W. Tenn. As a matter of fact. Millington, TN has a rifle range. Just let me know, or you can come West a little further and shoot with me @ Camp Robinson on the 600 to 1000 yard range. Pits @ 200-300-600 and 1000 yards.

 

[Eb1]

Ah heck. It's been a horrible week (seven days), and I should just let it go. It shouldn't come out on the board. Sorry, folks.

 

[kwelz]

Oops

 

[Eb1]

91v317µp4£r34Ð¥.

 

[kwelz]

Sorry I missed your last reply where you apologized.

 

[Fishbed77]

Wow. Get off topic much?

 

[Eb1]

Just a little. I guess a guy cannot say he'd like to see a plain jane 20" A2 for under $600 without offending the red dot/quad rail crews, but I'll take the rap to keep the crap down. I am not to thin skinned. I'll get over it. Yep. Just did.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have referenced that several times, but was talked down to with reference like (You have feet to get from point A to B, but air conditioning is the greatest), or some mess like that.

I'm sorry you perceived that as me talking down to you. I wasn't trying to imply that you were less of a person for liking fixed carry handles. I was just trying to humorously point out that there are a great many things we don't strictly "need" but that bring a lot of benefits to the table and make life easier/better.

And likewise, I don't care what other people use on their rifle. The whole point of THR and similar gun forums is to share what you know and learn what you don't - though it doesn't always work like that in practice. Some people (Service Rifle shooters for example), don't appreciate some of the limitations of irons sights because they don't shoot in low-light, shoot while moving, shoot under time pressure or shoot away from a known distance range with clearly silhouetted targets and wind flags.

And again, that's not to imply that people who do those things are somehow better than those who don't. If you made me shoot Service Rifle seriously, I'd start to appreciate a lot of things that I don't know about that sport and the limitations of equipment that works just fine for me now. When you stated the fixed handle is the only way to go, about a hundred different reasons popped into my mind why that wasn't the case. Your main concern seemed to be that the sights would somehow shift otherwise. I was just trying to explain that in practical terms, fixed sights don't really offer any advantage there in my experience (but then again, I'm not using NCStar scopes on a UTG scope mount either).

And to bring us full circle, regardless of what kind of AR sport you like, having another AR manufacturer can only be good news ultimately since it brings more competition for better features and price.

 

[Sin City Shootist]

I wonder if we'll see them sitting in a Walmart spinner case anytime soon? Seems like Walmart carries everything Mossberg slaps their name on.

I don't know about Walmart but I was pleasantly surprised to see that Bass Pro is now selling AR15 type rifles and accessories. I guess they figured out they were loosing a ton of cash to the smaller gun stores.

You know, I've got one of those Maverick 88 12ga that I beat to death and it still keeps on a workin. I'd shoot an AR made by the moose.

 

[Strykervet]

Really? Another AR? Come on. Innovation is just plain dead in this country. Every maker it seems makes an AR and a 1911, and each one acts like they reinvented it.

Personally, I won't own an AR or a 1911 made by one of the major makers. I build my own AR's from local milspec and custom parts and when I get a 1911 it will be an Ed Brown. When I shop Smith and Wesson, I want revolvers and 3rd gen. autos. When I shop Mossberg, I want reliable pumps. You get the point.

Once upon a time, you see, they all made different stuff! Once upon a time, Sig made Sigs, and Smith and Wesson made Smith pistols --if you wanted an AR or a 1911 you had to go to one of the few AR makers, one of the few 1911 makers, or Colt.

Folks can only own or will want to own just so many AR's before they get their fill. At that point, something interesting will happen to the firearms industry that has nothing to do with politics. At some point, sales of these weapons will dwindle, and what then?

Hopefully some of them will go under, the junk makers like Bobcat or SW (or whatever he calls his junk business these days). Hopefully it will inspire innovation in the big makers.

I'm innovative. I'd be interested in a GOOD new design. I have ideas myself, but can't afford the machinery to get started. It just disgusts me that the industry that CAN afford to design and build new weapons doesn't.

When the industry does come out with something new, it is usually plastic and costs four times as much as it should. Which reminds me of the third great copy. The Glock. Almost all makers have a striker fired polymer framed pistol now too. While not a direct copy (except the Sigma) it isn't a coincidence either.

 

[Ro1911]

HOOfan 1

I don't have to handle it, when it has pistol grip that looks like a toy it tells you alot about the quality of the build. Anyone who would put that on there gun instead of a $5 A2 grip or $20 MOE grip has serious mental problems, and Mossberg's web site put the price at$900 msrp which means $700-$800 street price. Thats about what I paid for my Smith and Wesson M&P15OR, and I would consider it much better rifle then that mossberg could ever hope to be.

 

[kwelz]

Just a little. I guess a guy cannot say he'd like to see a plain jane 20" A2 for under $600 without offending the red dot/quad rail crews,

It could have someting to do with the insults you were throwing around.

And if you like an A2 rifle them great. They don't serve much practical purpose anymore but are fine for target shooting, which is apparenty what you like.

 

[Ro1911]

Eb1

every thing you just said about A2 irons I could say about an ACOG, and if you still think the irons are sturdier then I would refer you to all of the pics, stories and real life encounters I've had with ACOGs that have been shot or even blown up and still held zero and were fully functional.

and aimpoints too for that matter

sorry I was reading on page two when I wrote this, I hadn't seen that you appologized.

And I know what you mean about the guys shooting benchrest at 25 yards with a reddot, flash light and laser attached, but they usually can hit **** any way. Those are the same people who think a single shot .22 is beneath them. Some how I think those two are connected in some way.

 

[Strykervet]

$800 or $900... I'm halfway through a build right now. I got an Aero Precision receiver set, something like $70 for both and I got to match them. They make receivers for anyone, and if you order 100 (maybe less even) they'll put whatever you want on it. Anyway, I got parts here and there for cheap, all milspec. For about $1000 I built a flat top Grendel rifle with a Satern barrel, KAC free floating rail, standard A1 buttstock, and a 2 stage RRA trigger (I swapped it out of another rifle... So this one actually cost around $900 with my polished 4.5lb DPMS trigger). All other parts like carrier and FA and such are milspec. I got a military surplus carry handle for $20 or $30. It'll get the bipod and ACOG off the FAL, which only needs a reflex sight anyway.

AR's are easy to build, and if you are careful and plan it well, you can build a much better rifle than most makers make. They have to make a profit, your profit will be the best rifle for the dollar. Were I to buy the rifle I made, I would probably run twice what I spent on it. AA sells a similar one but with a few more doodads for $3000.

My M4. I built that thing, not counting cannibalized parts, for MAYBE $500, and it has a FF Oly rail (not the best but cheap and it works well) military stock, polished trigger group, stainless 1:8 M4 bbl, etc. Were I to build it ground up now, it would run me about $600-$700.

Simply put, I can build a better AR for the price than I can buy. I bought my first and last AR in the 90's. I've built 'em ever since.

What I can't build are AUG's, SCAR's, Masada's, FS2000, G36 etc. How about copying those? How about making affordable non-AR's? I know Microtech makes or made an affordable AUG (not sure about the quality). I mean, if you have the machinery and the measurements, some of those weapons are easier and cheaper to build than the M4. "If you build 'em, they will come." Yeah, and I'll be the first in line.

Mossberg could easily have made something different; had they made a bullpup copy or a rifle that has quick change barrels, they could have cleaned up.

BTW, to the NM shooters on here. Why buy a competition rifle for what they sell them for? A service rifle I mean? You can get a Bushmaster for $700-$800 through CMP I thought...

 

[sarduy]

None of the sub $700 M4 look alike ARs on the market even approach being close to the M4 TDP anyway

are you sure...?

 

[ugaarguy]

are you sure...?

YHM uses 4140 instead of Mil-B-11595E certified 4150 on the bbl; and they simply say the bolt & carrier mil-spec. They make no mention of HPT/MPI on the bolt, nor the barrel.

Do you have pics of the staking on the carrier key? Staking on the receiver extension castle nut? Is the receiver extension mil-spec, or commercial? Is the FSB F height?

Further, I can't even find any YHM rifles or uppers that have standard handguards, and a fixed FSB. Everything on their website is already free floated, and the uppers alone list at over $700. Fill me in on some sources for these YHM rifles for under $700.

 

[sarduy]

i posted the pic as a visual reference only, but since you want to it to be specific...

this is a CMMG kit with a YHM lower

CMMG M4 Profile Uppers
CMMG M4 Profile Uppers have the following standard features.

• Mil-spec certified 4150 chrome-moly vanadium steel M4 contour barrel
• 5.56x45 NATO chamber
• 1:7 twist
• Hard chrome lined chamber and bore
• M4 feed ramps
• 11 degree recessed target crown
• F marked forged front sight base
• Parkerized Barrel including under the front sight base
• A2 Flash hider installed with Peel washer
• Forged A3 upper receivers are T marked and have extended feed ramp cuts (M4 ramps).
• Semi Auto bolt carrier

Each barrel is individually magnetic particle tested. Barrels are engraved CMMG MPC 5.56 NATO 1:7. Each Upper is head spaced and test fired before shipping. Upper specific features are listed with the individual item. When selecting the gas piston operating system, it will override your choices for the bolt carrier and front sight/gas block.

 

[RX-178]

Wait, wait, wait... hold on a second, everybody!





...Did I just read that there's actually a real company called Stark Industries, and they make AR-15 parts?

 

[ugaarguy]

I suppose I should have specified complete rifles; but I figured since the thread was about complete factory assembled rifles that was assumed.

but since you want to it to be specific..
this is a CMMG kit with a YHM lower

Well since I'm being specific, CMMG doesn't HPT/MPI their bolts

Actually, I'm anxiously awaiting a barrel & a few other parts from CMMG to build a dedicated .22 LR upper.

I'm also well aware of PSA's great prices on complete uppers & lowers.


To drag this back on topic, I hope the Mossberg MMR / AR-15 gains some traction, and shows up in some retailers that didn't carry tactical rifles / EBRs / whatever-you-wanna-call-'em. I'm all for the public accepting these rifles as the normal, everyday, ho-hum rifles most shooters now view them as.

 

[sarduy]

i wonder if the include an Ironman sticker





same style as the one in mossberg AR (maybe is the same)

 

[68wj]

The Stark grip is one of the best options if you break one of the tabs off when driving in the trigger guard roll pin. It covers up your "whoops" nicely.

Thankfully, not from 1st hand experience.

 

[Wargarden]

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=mossberg+ar&um=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1051&bih=596&wrapid=tlif131238249853210&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=12183633263917664649&sa=X&ei=KV45TuWhAZC5tgfGk9HxCg&ved=0CEsQ8wIwAQ#

I know its the .22LR version, but still...the next closest thing is around 450$. And I've been looking for a cheap AR .22.