Mossin nagant, it's ammo, and more info?

[Random 8]

I'm a little late to this party, out of town for work with no internet all week, but I'll speak to some of the questions in the OP and a few others that came up along the way.

RE Mosin Nagant, ammo, suitability for hunting. The cartridge with proper soft point ammo is absolutely suitable for hunting big game. Stay away from the 203 grain stuff, it's a little hard for deer sized game. Look to PRVI Partizan manufactured 150 grain soft point. It is fine, accurate ammo and works well on deer, I've used it. The rifle can be utilized for hunting, but is probably not optimal. It is best used with open sights or a scout mount and long eye relief scope as mentioned above, as attaching a receiver mounted scope requires modification of the bolt handle. There are a fair number out there that have had this work done with quality workmanship, those can generally be had for a lower price than unmodified mosin-nagants. The Finnish made rifles tend to be better all around. The safety is a pain to use while hunting. I generally use my modified carbine (finished Bubba's job on a $40 garage sale rifle) afield with the safety on while carrying, off with bolt handle up while stationary.

If you are interested in a Military arm suitable for hunting for the sake of having a military arm, the mauser pattern rifles either in 7mm, 8mm or .308 are a much better fit hunting wise. Do some research on how to identify the Model 98 vs. the Model 93 or 95 pattern. The latter 2 may not be safe with modern loads. Many examples of sporterized rifles can be had from garage hack jobs to fine custom pieces for a reasonable price, and unmodified military versions are also relatively affordable barring any special collectability factors. The Swedish M96 pattern rifles are especially good, and priced accordingly. That being said, I would consider an inexpensive modern rifle in .308 as your first rifle due to cost, ammunition availability, and to gain some experience before you dive into the world of military surplus. There are many fine rifles out there, also many mismatched, shot-out, potentially unsafe or just troublesome lemons out there if you don't know what you're looking for. A modern, new or recent production rifle will get you something engineered to be safe and reliable in the hands of inexperience with any ammunition of correct caliber you can buy at the store. They weren't so carful in the days of the bolt action service rifle, and many out there have some rough mileage on them.

 

[morcey2]

-And I've had at least as much fun with an '80 Chevette as an '80 Corvette.

One of my uncles had a very interesting algorithm for picking the car to buy for his kids to learn to drive.... What car has the cheapest clutch to replace? He ended up with a Chevette. The clutch would invariably be replaced after each kid. I woulda just bought an automatic and let them learn manual on their own.

Matt

 

[DPris]

I woulda just replaced the kids....
Denis

 

[caribou]

Caribou,
It is probably not varnish if it has been re-arsenaled, it is shellac which doesn't like any type of moisture. Depending on who you believe, 1942 izvhesks might have had a varnish finish originally. .

I see I flipped from shellac to varnish.....LOL! You know the Gunboards, ''shellac or varnish? pinetar or asphault? and a bazillion other detail questions, we hope never run out .

The Pu was definitely re-arsenal, as all the Molot sold ones were, the slashed box and all, but the barrel, mount and scope are all same font. If it were, say a Finn captured, with blood stains, it might hang on the wall, its service over, but not hers, its a tool, and careful use makes it more valuable. Give the woman time, shes getting moving shots down, shell settle into a scope when she does.

I used to have a sweet Russian capture mix numberd K98k I wore the bore out with 12,000 Turk 8mm on strippers. That stuff was either great shooting or not. Seems it depend on the storage as it would be a whole bandoleer or either good o go or hangfire/nofire/sputter......but it was a ''fun gun'' for me and the two sons as they grew up, often just step out of the tent and there was the range, wide open. I still do that today, and keep up the practice. Shoot untill its instinctive.
Romanian spam cans of 8mm were top notch, but 8mm on the cheap is no more, and neither is 54r
My daughter has a nice BXN(?) midwar 98k thats all matching and has honest use, with an excellent bore and dead on accurate....... I should go visit her and ogle her collection.
And, personally, if I couldnt use a Mosin and had to use another bolt gun, it would be an M-1917, 30-06. 6 in the mag one in the tube and Bears are not so daunting
Mostly because theres one in the corner of the room.....LOL! Bubbuq, the Eskimo took the wood to a minimum, but the metals all fine 'cept the missing woods metal gear forward of the mag. Great shooting Rifle!

 

[22250Rem]

Look to PRVI Partizan manufactured 150 grain soft point. It is fine, accurate ammo and works well on deer,

..........That's what I was using in my 91/30 before I got a satisfactory hunting handload........ Too bad I never got a deer in front of me when carrying the Mosin but the ammo shoots well and this thread led me to dig out my notes on the 7.62x54R and that 150 gr. load has been chronographed on two different occasions. First time was averaging 2875 fps and almost a year later a different lot of that PRVI 150 gr. stuff averaged 2915 fps from that same long barreled 91/30. A 150 gr soft point in the neighborhood of 2900 fps should be a superb deer load in case the OP is still considering it.

 

[Random 8]

..........That's what I was using in my 91/30 before I got a satisfactory hunting handload........ Too bad I never got a deer in front of me when carrying the Mosin but the ammo shoots well and this thread led me to dig out my notes on the 7.62x54R and that 150 gr. load has been chronographed on two different occasions. First time was averaging 2875 fps and almost a year later a different lot of that PRVI 150 gr. stuff averaged 2915 fps from that same long barreled 91/30. A 150 gr soft point in the neighborhood of 2900 fps should be a superb deer load in case the OP is still considering it.

Works about like a 150 Hornady sp from a .308 from my carbine on large deer here in Northern MN. This bullet is available as a component, and you should be able to get similar velocities handloaded. I currently use the Hornady 174 rn .311 as I'm hunting a lot of tough angles in heavy timber and I got a good deal on them.

 

[22250Rem]

I have some of those RN Hornady 174 gr. in my .303 British components stash but I've never tried them with 7.62x54R loads as mine are listed as .312", which I haven't tried in the Mosin yet. I'm sure they would be outstanding in heavy timber. My current Mosin hunting load that I'm itching to try on deer is a .311" 150 gr. Sierra Pro Hunter ahead of some RL-15 for just a hair under 2900 fps ( chrono'd Aug. 2017 at 76 deg.). and the accuracy is nice.

 

[caribou]

Years back I handloaded.....and its something Ill get back into someday.
Shooting a Finn, M-39, 24, 27, 28 , 28/30,I found Privi cases better than Winchester.
The best I found was using a CCI Primer, a Finnish 310 '166D' bullet and 43grn of Vargett. Pretty much 1 inch stuff.

Later, just because I had to know, I tryed it in other Mosins, and it shot clean and tight, even in a straight up Russian.

 

[Random 8]

Years back I handloaded.....and its something Ill get back into someday.
Shooting a Finn, M-39, 24, 27, 28 , 28/30,I found Privi cases better than Winchester.
The best I found was using a CCI Primer, a Finnish 310 '166D' bullet and 43grn of Vargett. Pretty much 1 inch stuff.

Later, just because I had to know, I tryed it in other Mosins, and it shot clean and tight, even in a straight up Russian.

I've shot the PU sniper (to 600 yards) and an M39 in competition (200 yards Vintage high power). Used both the SMK and Hornady/Grafs contract 174 to good effect. Varget was OK, had better results with IMR 4350 and IMR 4064. Used the 2 pretty much interchangeably (with appropriate charge weights per Lyman data). Also with the 174 Hornady RN. Shot bugholes with that one in my sported and bedded M44 with Finn trigger, but pinpoint accuracy is kind of irrelevant with that low BC bullet unless one were shooting 100 yard competitions, but I like what it does to deer. 4064 is now my go to for all bolt action military cartridges, it just fills that role so nicely in all the rounds I load, and I don't trust the availability of Varget. Yes PRVI is fine brass, almost equal to Lapua.

 

[someguy2800]

I’ve never bothered to get any reloadable brass for mine. If I ever get a Finn or a PU I’ll give it a go. I already have a couple .311” bullets on hand for my Arisaka and a pretty sizable collection of .308 bullets. My ‘40 Tula shoots 4” at 100 with iron sights and brown bear 203gr SP so I just left it at that. I can’t do any better than that with iron sights. Someday I will shoot a deer with it.

 

[fpgt72]

But we are talking about guns. Right?

Same same, the Mosin is pretty widely thought of as not the greatest thing on the planet, fit and finish all that jazz....yet you alone have enough to equip a small south american country.....you see them as they are *i think* a part of history to be enjoyed on their own standing not judged against a Holland and Holland double rifle.

If you only look at the Holland and Holland you are missing a big part of the world....just like if you only look at the Z28 and ignore everything else...you miss so much cool and interesting stuff, you miss the chance to learn about the Levis edition cars.....and that is flat cool, Levis in a car...what history, it is just nifty.

 

[fpgt72]

I’m not a lover of the high end. I’m not a lover of the bottom 5% either.

Your bottom 5%....that is the key, and those in YOUR bottom 5 have some very cool features you are missing.....and then why are you in a mosin thread....clearly in the bottom 5% of surplus guns.

 

[fpgt72]

I’ve never bothered to get any reloadable brass for mine. If I ever get a Finn or a PU I’ll give it a go. I already have a couple .311” bullets on hand for my Arisaka and a pretty sizable collection of .308 bullets. My ‘40 Tula shoots 4” at 100 with iron sights and brown bear 203gr SP so I just left it at that. I can’t do any better than that with iron sights. Someday I will shoot a deer with it.

You would be amazed at how they can wake up with good hand loaded ammo. Just like any other firearm, taylor the ammo to your specific guns and you will be rewarded.

I have huge fun making that as some called it bottom 5% to shoot well....I have spent lots of time with Carcano...my current why the hell would anyone spend so much time on this thing project...and have gone from basket ball sized groups to soft ball, now I am down to base ball. I doubt I can get better then that, and this is all working on one rifle....I have a few others to fool with.

I enjoy that challenge.....about anyone can take a "good" whatever that is rifle and shoot "good" with it....Now to take a rifle that does not shoot well and work up loads....there is a little, *in my case very little* skill there.....and I have fun doing that....the guns also just flat work better, cycle all that jazz....just wish someone would make GOOD clips for the poor things.

eh I babble again.

 

[someguy2800]

Your bottom 5%....that is the key, and those in YOUR bottom 5 have some very cool features you are missing.....and then why are you in a mosin thread....clearly in the bottom 5% of surplus guns.

I don’t consider a Mosin a bottom 5% rifle. They are a well made, durable gun that shoot good. I’m very fond of mine. They are better made than many new rifles.

 

[someguy2800]

You would be amazed at how they can wake up with good hand loaded ammo. Just like any other firearm, taylor the ammo to your specific guns and you will be rewarded.

I have huge fun making that as some called it bottom 5% to shoot well....I have spent lots of time with Carcano...my current why the hell would anyone spend so much time on this thing project...and have gone from basket ball sized groups to soft ball, now I am down to base ball. I doubt I can get better then that, and this is all working on one rifle....I have a few others to fool with.

I enjoy that challenge.....about anyone can take a "good" whatever that is rifle and shoot "good" with it....Now to take a rifle that does not shoot well and work up loads....there is a little, *in my case very little* skill there.....and I have fun doing that....the guns also just flat work better, cycle all that jazz....just wish someone would make GOOD clips for the poor things.

eh I babble again.

I don’t doubt it, but I would need a scope to see the difference.

 

[fpgt72]

I don’t doubt it, but I would need a scope to see the difference.

I do not agree...you can have night and day differences.

 

[Random 8]

I don’t consider a Mosin a bottom 5% rifle. They are a well made, durable gun that shoot good. I’m very fond of mine. They are better made than many new rifles.

View attachment 804388

The Germans looked down their noses at them in 2 world wars also, and learned otherwise.

I've found most of the more recent imports, given good bore condition, to shoot from 2-4" at 100 yards 5 shot groups with quality service ammunition and irons, and noticeably better in some cases with handloads. Some of the surplus is pretty sketchy, some of it is surprisingly good. Particularly the Czech and Polish manufactured ammo and the early 1950's ammo from Hungary that was available some time ago. This is about on par with what you could expect from an Enfield No4Mk1, K98 or M1 Garand in the second world war with service ammo. There is no question they are a durable rifle, although they do lack in fit and finish compared to the other 3 mentioned above.

The biggest complaints about them are design oriented. The antiquated rimmed cartridge requiring an interrupter, the questionable stock ergonomics, etc. Remember though, the Soviets were faced with the necessity of updating an antiquated design rather than fielding a modern rifle. The SVT 40 semi-automatic rifle was slated for full implementation but wartime needs dictated otherwise. Likewise with the Germans and Brits. America was the only belligerent nation of WWII to implement a modern rifle in the conflict for general issue, the rest fought with slightly modified versions of their WWI service arms.

 

[someguy2800]

I do not agree...you can have night and day differences.

I know what handloading can do, I handload over 20 different cartridges. My eyesight is the limitation not the rifle, I’m pretty nearsighted.

 

[someguy2800]

The Germans looked down their noses at them in 2 world wars also, and learned otherwise.

I've found most of the more recent imports, given good bore condition, to shoot from 2-4" at 100 yards 5 shot groups with quality service ammunition and irons, and noticeably better in some cases with handloads. Some of the surplus is pretty sketchy, some of it is surprisingly good. Particularly the Czech and Polish manufactured ammo and the early 1950's ammo from Hungary that was available some time ago. This is about on par with what you could expect from an Enfield No4Mk1, K98 or M1 Garand in the second world war with service ammo. There is no question they are a durable rifle, although they do lack in fit and finish compared to the other 3 mentioned above.

The biggest complaints about them are design oriented. The antiquated rimmed cartridge requiring an interrupter, the questionable stock ergonomics, etc. Remember though, the Soviets were faced with the necessity of updating an antiquated design rather than fielding a modern rifle. The SVT 40 semi-automatic rifle was slated for full implementation but wartime needs dictated otherwise. Likewise with the Germans and Brits. America was the only belligerent nation of WWII to implement a modern rifle in the conflict for general issue, the rest fought with slightly modified versions of their WWI service arms.

The only complaints I have of them are the rimmed cartridges make them trick to load with strippers and the stocks are really soft wood. A better safety wouldn’t be a bad thing either but it’s workable.

 

[caribou]

I know what ya mean Someguy,
I have had problems with after market strippers to no end, but the real 'issued' ones can be a big help in the cold.
There are Chinese fake 'Tikka' strippers out there, looking galvanized and a circle T stamped on them. Unreal friction to get those to load into the rifle, like a death grip.
I have a few 'real' Chinese strippers left over from some Chinese 7.62x54r. I find they work well as long as they are clean and lightly lubed.
I find using them at -20 and below a real convenience in speed loading, and not having to frost bite fingertips fumbling with frozen metals.
Unlike Lee Enfeild .303 on strips, the rims matter not to the stripper or the rifle, due to the clever interrupter

The Russians wood must have been what was on hand.
The Finns used better wood, made thicker and in short grafted stocks of 2 and 3 piece variety, which kept warpage of completed stocks to a minimum. American made Mosins had Walnut.

The Finns really turned them into first class rifles. Even the bayonet they issued was of practical, utility size.

 

[Risky buisness]

The Mosin Nagant is not a finely crafted rifle, it is however a simple very robust tool. The Finnish M39 would be the updated version, still simple still robust and a powerful rifle as well. I note several posters encourage the OP to give up on the Mosin and opt for a cheap new rifle or some other surplus firearm while both would be accepptable, I would disagree with this concept, if the OP wants to field a Mosin, good for him/her, and I would encourage him to go for it. I don't take mine hunting much, having acquired a sweet 1941 M39 to fill that roll but have and would continue to with no hesitation. It's a personal thing with me, but sometimes the easier route, while acceptable, lacks the satisfaction of something done with a bit more effort to achieve the same result. I would presume this OP is relatively new to shooting, and by starting with a rifle such as a Mosin, may be encouraged to do the research to get going correctly, and perhaps begin hand loading,oh God, perhaps even start collecting and shooting historical firearms. Hell yea, Encourage. Someone to try a different route, otherwise we would all shoot a plastic stock Savage Axis.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The Mosin Nagant is not a finely crafted rifle, it is however a simple very robust tool. The Finnish M39 would be the updated version, still simple still robust and a powerful rifle as well. I note several posters encourage the OP to give up on the Mosin and opt for a cheap new rifle or some other surplus firearm while both would be accepptable, I would disagree with this concept, if the OP wants to field a Mosin, good for him/her, and I would encourage him to go for it. I don't take mine hunting much, having acquired a sweet 1941 M39 to fill that roll but have and would continue to with no hesitation. It's a personal thing with me, but sometimes the easier route, while acceptable, lacks the satisfaction of something done with a bit more effort to achieve the same result. I would presume this OP is relatively new to shooting, and by starting with a rifle such as a Mosin, may be encouraged to do the research to get going correctly, and perhaps begin hand loading,oh God, perhaps even start collecting and shooting historical firearms. Hell yea, Encourage. Someone to try a different route, otherwise we would all shoot a plastic stock Savage Axis.

Did you catch the part where the OP thought that Mosins still cost around $150? They are selling for around $300 now days. Some say this is due to the fact that they are no longer imported. I say if’s the fact that people are willing to over pay for them. There are other milsurp rifles out there that are better values.
The OP also stated that he wanted it for hunting at first. My self and others merely pointed out other options.
I truly think that if the OP really wants a Mosin, he will get one, but now has a better understanding of what to look for.

 

[Risky buisness]

Did you catch the part where I mentioned " by starting with a rifle such as the Mosin , may be encouraged to do the research to get going correctly". I'm pretty sure that by starting asking around here, he's going to get any one of a number of options, to choose a path forward. Including the cost and or if their are other better values.

 

[DPris]

The Mosins are something of a gamble in terms of what you get, but if you end up with one in good shape it CAN be a surprisingly good shooter.

One here, with the only work done being to ditch all military wood & replace with a Boyds, outshot a new high-dollar scoped rifle for three shots at 100 yards, with the Mosin's lousy trigger & its open military sights.

And that rifle has the worst bore of all four I have.

The thing about hunting with it, for me, is the safety.
It's too hard to release quickly & easily, and I would not want to field the gun either empty-chambered or chambered with safety off.
Denis

 

[someguy2800]

Ever since I started getting into older military rifles I’m stunned how well they can shoot with the pitted sewer pipe barrels on them. My 1898 Krag sporter is the most remarkable. The bore lookes horrible and is egg shaped in the middle. Is about .314 in the middle and .311 at each end yet it still shoots an honest 5 shot 1” group at 100 yards with a 3-9 on it and the right bullets. Shoots best with 168 gr Hornady .308 bthp’s. I was a teenager when all the box stores were selling Mosin’s, Turkish Mausers, and SKS’s for $89 and spam cans of ammo for the same. All the old guys skoffed at them and said they wouldn’t shoot better than 12” at 100 yards so I never bought one. Wish I had gotten a couple of each now, same for the $500 garands and carbines. I had a chance to buy a carbine for $350 about 15 years ago, been kicking myself ever since.