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Most affordable way to have Class III gun?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Classical Liberal, May 9, 2006.

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  1. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    It seems to me the most affordable option is to buy an easily convertable firearm, pay the $200 ATF tax and then just put in a new sear (or whatever is necessary to perform the conversion).

    What is the catch to this scheme, though? Seems legal to my Swedish mind but I'm sure there is one.

    BTW, would be thankful for tips on rifles (and carbines) that are easily made to fire full auto.
     
  2. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    There is no cheap way to do it. In most cases, what you are talking about is illegal. In the cases where it is legal, the full auto sears are themselves registered and will cost many thousands of dollars (for example, Flemming H&K sears go for over 10 grand).

    There is currently a set number of non-LE machine guns in the U.S. It is illegal to make another one, no matter how you do it.
     
  3. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    I was aware that sears count as machine-guns but I wasn't aware that they were under the '86 restriction. Thanks for straightening it out!
     
  4. CypherNinja

    CypherNinja Member

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    The cheapest Class III you could probably find would be a Mac, right? 3000-ish?
     
  5. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    I think I saw a Mac-10 once for $1000, but take that with more than a little salt...
     
  6. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

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    Auto sears are themselves serialized, and on the NFA registry. As was pointed out, they cost a lot.

    Macs are currently the cheapest full autos.

    You didn't see a transferable for $1,000. :p If you did, I'll take it.

    $3,000 is pushing it. You are probably closer to $5,000. Check the classifieds at Subguns to see what transferables are going for. Prices constantly change, usually upwards, and a rate that blows my 401K out of the water. If you look at the trends, full auto is one of the best investments that there is.

    The cheapest way to get into the NFA game is a suppresor. Since they can still be manufactured, you are only into it $200-$1000 + $200 tax. Plus suppresors are a whole lot of fun, and easier on the wallet than ripping off long bursts of expensive ammo. :)

    As for the $200 tax, when you do your taxes at the end of the year, you can deduct it as a tax already paid.
     
  7. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    Good point about suppressors. But won't I have to fire a subsonic round for it to be of any use?

    In Finland, suppressors are sold over the counter. Maybe I will take a trip there soon ;)
     
  8. Dravur

    Dravur Member

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    Another fun thing

    ... to do is purchase and register a short barrelled rifle. The best and most fun way to do this is to register an AR-15 lower. As it was explained to me was, you can get the lower registered and then you can put on any upper length you please, a 10" etc. There is a box on the form that asks what barrell length, and I have been told that you only need to put in one short barrell length and another person said you have to put in any length you want to use. We are getting this checked out before I finish this.

    Im still trying to figure that one out. I am about to start the process for this as there is a LM&T 11.5" upper out there just waiting to be built into one of my guns.

    I am currently in the process for purchasing a Suppressor. You should find a store that deals with these items. I went up to ours, found the suppressor I wanted, got the serial number and they helped me fill out the form 4 and then i got the Fingerprints, a note from my local sheriff and away we go. In about 90 days, I should be able to go up and pick up my suppressor. Total cost will be about $750; $499 for the suppressor, $200 tax, and $50 paperwork fee.

    All the fun im going to have with a suppressor... Priceless
     
  9. Freddymac

    Freddymac Member

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    I know nothing about class III, but...

    the bushmaster catalog has M16 trigger parts, and they cost about the same as AR parts. Do you just need a Class III license, or are those prices for law inforcement/ military? How does that stuf work?
     
  10. jason10mm

    jason10mm Member

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    You can only (legally) buy the M-16 parts if you have an LEO/Gov letterhead and it is an official purtchase (IE, lots of legal red tape) or you personally have a registered pre-86 class III weapon that can accept these parts (no lightning link or replacement sear if that is your registered part, IIRC).

    Full auto is no more expensive than semi auto parts, in many cases it actually makes the weapon MORE expensive to be semi, as ridiculous measures must be done to prevent the weapon from being converted to full auto (Colts different pin sizes comes to mind).

    If the AFT was a true tax collection agency interested in generating revenue for the government, they would open the registry to newly manufactured machineguns. I bet they would make a few hundred million in the first 6 months alone! I would personally get at least 5 (M-16, MP-5, AK-47, Thompson SMG, and a P90) right off the bat.
     
  11. 444

    444 Member

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    Classical Liberal: You live in Sweeden ? If so, I have no idea what the laws are there regarding full auto weapons. For all I know, you can go to your local gun dealer and buy one new ? Even if this is the case, I don't know what kind of stuff they sell there, so I have no idea which one is the cheapest.
     
  12. gopguy

    gopguy Member

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    There needs to be a push to repeal not only the worthless 1989 semiauto ban but the ridiculous 1986 law too. I think only one legally owned machine gun has ever been used in a crime.....hardly justification for this unconsitutional ban.:fire:
     
  13. waterhouse

    waterhouse Member

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    Is this an income deduction or is this actually off of the tax I owe?
     
  14. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    444: nah, there is no way here, short of joining the Hemvärnet (National Guard)...
     
  15. 444

    444 Member

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    So you are asking the question in terms of what you can do in the USA ?
     
  16. Classical Liberal

    Classical Liberal member

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    Yeah, just out of curiosity. I like to stay informed on your laws and such.
     
  17. boofus

    boofus Guest

    Can you get Swedish AK5 parts? There is a huge market for them here in the US. Everything from AK5 stocks to handguards, and scope mounts and mags and slings.

    The FNC owners here really want AK5 parts bad, if you can get them legally you could probably make a fine chunk of cash exporting them.

    As for cheapest Class 3, I'm going with Any-Other-Weapon. Only $5 transfer tax on those and there is no 1986 ban on those to drive the price up.
     
  18. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    Just a thought, but you can buy a trigger group for a m2 carbine sear disconector, select lever etc. and drop it onto an m1 for really cheep, (like 200 bucks)

    haven't done it myself, but I've found the parts for sale online if you know what your looking for.

    don't know what the legalities are for it, or what it would take to register it as a class III and do it all legit.

    if anyone knows I would love to find out what it takes. If you cant do it legit, don't do it at all, its not worth loosing all your rights over.
     
  19. 444

    444 Member

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    You can't do it legit unless you are a manufacturer producing the weapon for law enforcement or as a dealer sample.
    As a private citizen, you haven't been able to do that since 1986.
     
  20. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    is there any way to get a manufacturer to actually perform the parts instalation (it doesn't take any permanent modification to the receiver or components)?

    can you buy a registered auto sear for the m2 carbine? and install it yourself?

    baring that, are there any civilian jobs which can qualify you for a LE rating? I've heard of sherifs deputising people who contribute to there campaign fund, would that qualify you for class III ownership?

    not trying to be dificult or argumentitive, but someday I'd like to own a full blown auto gun, and I'd like to do it cheep and legal.
     
  21. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    "Class III" is more than machineguns - it includes short barreled rifles/shotguns, silencers, and other guns that don't fit other standard categories ("AOW" - any other weapon - like "pen guns", legal "sawed-off shotguns", etc.).

    The cheapest Class III guns are likely AOWs - no supply limit, often built on non-restricted platforms, and a mere $5 transfer tax. New and legal "sawed-off shotguns" (actually a deliberately manufactured smoothbore pistol) can run around $400.
     
  22. 444

    444 Member

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    AJAX22: you can buy a legally registered M2. That is your one and only option.
    I don't know what you consider to be cheap but I doubt if any legally registered full auto weapon will qualify.
    I realize how easy it is to do, just a parts swap, but it aint legal for you to own a machine gun that was manufactured post-1986.
    You either pony up the money for a pre-86, legally registered gun, or you can't play. Those are your options, unfortuneately.
     
  23. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    Nope. It will still quiet down a supersonic round quite a bit. There will still be the 'crack' when the bullet passes someone downrange, but YOU won't hear it.

    I hunted varmits last Saturday with a buddy who has a (legal) suppressor on his AR-15. It was a bit louder, but not much louder, than a .22lr (which we had on hand for comparison.) I suppose the amount of supression would vary by how good the suppressor is.
     
  24. hotpig

    hotpig Member

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    AJAX22

    Police Officers can not buy full auto guns in the manor that you are thinking of. The gun has to be purchased by the agency following some red tape paperwork.
     
  25. AJAX22

    AJAX22 Member

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    Thanks, I didn't know it was registered to the agency, I thought it was to the individual.
     
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