Movie guns

[Crossfire]

I ran across a web site that might be of interest to some shooters. Go to your browser and type in “Internet Movie Firearms Data Base.” You can type in your gun and find all the movies it is used in. Or type in the movie and find all the guns used in it. For instance, in John Wayne's “Alamo,” Richard Widmark used a multi-barreled long gun of some kind. I typed in the movie and found out he was using a Nock gun. A seven-barreled flintlock volley gun made for the navy. I had never heard of it.

Crossfire

 

[4v50 Gary]

It was a weapon of the Royal Navy.

Charleston City Museum (South Carolina) has one displayed.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

It is interesting to note that before about 1960 or so, most of the guns used in movies were originals, not modern reproductions. I still cringe every time a cowboy is commanded to drop his six gun and kick it across the floor. Most of those were original First Generation Colts. Worth a lot of money today, but not worth a whole lot back then.

In The Man From Laramie, the Kate Canady character is brandishing a real Henry. That gun would be worth a small fortune today.

 

[Smokin'Joe]

In the early 70s I came upon a film crew shooting the Henry Fonda movie MY Name is Nobody. I struck up a conversation with the armorer who had two trucks full of 19th century small arms. He showed me some of the guns, all originals, he had modified to fit certain movies. He told me he hated to do it but that was his job.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Wow! I never knew that the guns used in those movies were originals. Makes sense since Italy wasn't make reproductions back then.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Wow! I never knew that the guns used in those movies were originals. Makes sense since Italy wasn't make reproductions back then.

Up until the 1970s or so the movie studios had vast inventories of old guns. Remember, a lot of these things were not worth a whole lot of money back then, I'm talking about the 1920s and 1930s, so the movie studios bought them up cheap. That is why you almost always see Winchester Model 1892s being used in Westerns that are set earlier than 1892. The studios owned a lot of 1892 carbines. When you see a movie with entire armies armed with a particular rifle, they were almost always originals.

When you see a pirate movie with big flint lock pistols, a lot of the time the pistol was made from a Trapdoor rifle with a fake flint cock on it. It was easier for the propmen to load a blank into a trap door than be fooling with flint and loose powder. Kind of a shame.

The movie propmen were very clever about transforming old guns into something else. Like pulling the forend off a Winchester 1892 to make it resemble a Henry. Watch The Scalphunters sometime. Burt Lancaster is carrying one of these Hollywood Henrys. And you can see one in the shooting contest in Winchester 1873. In fact, when Dutch Henry complains about the lack of power from a Henry, it is really a Model 1873 he throws off the cliff. A real one I might add. Cringe. When Winchester 1873 was made, a standard 1873 was sent back to the factory and gussied up to look like a 1 of 1000 Winchester.

In the 1969 version of True Grit Jeff Corey carries a Henry rifle. I suspect it was an original as I do not think Uberti had started making them yet, but I could be wrong. The Walker Colt was a replica made by Replica Arms, a forerunner of Navy Arms. It was converted to shoot 38 caliber blanks. So was the Walker carried by Robert Duval in Lonesome Dove.

When Crossfire Trail was made, an original Winchester Model 1876 was modified to the musket configuration. Tom Selleck later donated this gun to the NRA National Firearms Museum.

Sometime in the 1980s the movie studios realized that all those old guns had become worth a lot of money, so most of them were sold off. That is why today the movie studios hire an armorer today to supply guns for the movie. And now, most of those guns are replicas.

 

[Patocazador]

In the 80s I had a Class III license and got fliers all the time announcing sales of movie studio submachine guns .. mostly Thompsons. Almost all were advertised as "demilled" meaning they had been modified to only fire blanks or had the actions welded shut so they would only be "sight props" (non-firing).

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

The imfdb is amazing. Most of the entries are
for post 197Os movies. I am working on some
pages for some of the classic 1930s/40s Errol Flynn and
Joel McRae
westerns where the actors, actresses, and stunt men and women
are clearly firing original Colts and Remmies.

 

[FuzzyBunny]

Often they use wooden guns painted black depending on the scene. When you rent by the hour or day the production company can save a fortune.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I am frequently amused by the identification of Europen blank firing guns as the props in some movies.

And the Stg44s dressed up as M16s in Russian action movies. Plus the number of Thompsons modified to fire 9mm blanks from Mp40 magazines in the Russian movies.

 

[Berkley]

One of the more valuable originals used by Hollywood, a Colt Paterson:

-Colt Firearms by James Serven

 

[Skinny 1950]

In the early 1960's a company was formed to reproduce the handguns of old, Colt had suspended production of their older models so this upstart company tried to fill the gap.
The Great Western Arms company.
Here is an example of one of their guns:

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

In the early 1960's a company was formed to reproduce the handguns of old, Colt had suspended production of their older models so this upstart company tried to fill the gap.
The Great Western Arms company.
Here is an example of one of their guns:

Not quite correct. Colt stopped production of the Single Action Army in 1940, partially to free up production capacity to make the 1911 as war approached. The Great Western Arms company was started in 1953 to pick up the slack and to fill the need. Colt began production of the SAA again in 1956, partially because of demand demonstrated by GWA and partially because of demand demonstrated by Ruger's Single Six. Great Western Arms went out of business in 1964.

Among those who used a Great Western on TV was James Arness as Matt Dillon in Gunsmoke. WWII veteran and movie star Audie Murphy was a spokesman for the company and eventually became a part owner.

 

[AJumbo]

John Wayne carried a pair of engraved Great Westerns in "The Shootist."

I've seen a mess of those old studio guns, and they were just flat abused.....dropped, kicked, poorly maintained, painted...... so their value collector is pretty well compromised unless there's an ironclad provenance connecting them to a significant movie or actor.

I got to handle one Arvo Ojala's holster rigs,complete with a Colt that he wore down to a nubbin. The cylinder had about ten degrees of play, and gap between it and the forcing cone was probably about .10 inches. The front edge of the cylinder was so worn that the chambers were nearly sharp. It may have been the rig he was wearing when he beat James Arness to the draw in the "Gunsmoke" title sequence (and died anyway), so it has an incalculable "cool factor"
.

 

[Big Al Mass]

Why do the barrel walls of some movie guns look to be very thin at the muzzle? Is it because the barrels have been bored out to smooth out pitting?

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Why do the barrel walls of some movie guns look to be very thin at the muzzle? Is it because the barrels have been bored out to smooth out pitting?

There would be no point to 'smoothing out pitting'. Smoothing out pitting would also smooth out the rifling. I have lots of old guns that have pitted bores. Generally speaking, they still shoot fine as long as the rifling has not been worn out. Most likely you are just looking at a gun that has a thin barrel to begin with.

You may have been looking at something sometimes called a 'pencil barrel'. A barrel does not need to be very heavy to contain the pressure of the cartridge. Generally thickness is added to add weight to contract recoil. But lots of guns had relatively thin walled barrels.

Like this. Both are 38s, but the older one on the left has a pencil barrel.




Also, the bigger the hole, the thinner the barrel wall is. Like on this 45. If you look very carefully you can see the rifling is still sharp.

 

[Phantom Captain]

The Nock gun is used throughout the Richard Sharpe novels by Bernard Cornwell. Sharpe's trusty companion Sgt. Pat Harper almost always has the Nock gun slung over his shoulder for tight situations and it's gotten them out of a few to say the least. Good stuff.

Here's a website describing one and a picture of the author, Cornwell, holding an original that was used in filming some of the TV series based on his books.

http://www.southessex.co.uk/weapons/nock.htm

There are a few of the technical details listed as well. Cornwell, in the books, always describes the recoil as almost uncontrollable and it's only the great strength and familiarity of the weapon that allow both Sharpe and Harper to decently fire the beast.

 

[SleazyRider]

The gun used in the opening credits for Superman sure looked real to me as a little kid, and whetted my appetite for firearms. Was it a Model 10? Wonder where it is today?

 

[Big Al Mass]

There would be no point to 'smoothing out pitting'. Smoothing out pitting would also smooth out the rifling. I have lots of old guns that have pitted bores. Generally speaking, they still shoot fine as long as the rifling has not been worn out. Most likely you are just looking at a gun that has a thin barrel to begin with.

You may have been looking at something sometimes called a 'pencil barrel'. A barrel does not need to be very heavy to contain the pressure of the cartridge. Generally thickness is added to add weight to contract recoil. But lots of guns had relatively thin walled barrels.

Like this. Both are 38s, but the older one on the left has a pencil barrel.




Also, the bigger the hole, the thinner the barrel wall is. Like on this 45. If you look very carefully you can see the rifling is still sharp.

Thanks for the explanation, Driftwood. I guess it was just an optical illusion caused by the use of a wide-angle lens. Referring back to my other post, I forgot that there is a term for what I was talking about: counterboring. Is that procedure ever done with pistol barrels? I have seen it in reference to rifle barrels, but not with pistols.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

The gun used in the opening credits for Superman sure looked real to me as a little kid, and whetted my appetite for firearms. Was it a Model 10? Wonder where it is today?

Actually, it is a Post War 38 Military and Police, the precursor to the Model 10.

The Superman series ran on TV from 1952 until 1958. The Model 10 did not appear until 1957.

Watch the video closely. The front sight is a half moon style front sight, but the hammer is the first version of the short throw hammer sometimes called the Speed Hammer, first introduced about 1948. When the Model 10 was introduced in 1957 it had a serrated ramp front sight and the current style short throw hammer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0B1ufyXOds

I suspect it was just one of the many firearms the movie studios owned, and its whereabouts today is unknown. Other than being in that opening sequence, it was a very common revolver.

For what its worth, I loved that opening sequence too.

 

[timedoc]

Thanks,Great site, gotta love the fastest gun alive and shane. Brings back fond memories. Should be able to kill a couple of hours.

 

[Louca]

I learned about that site quite a while ago, and it is one of my favorites now. Usually, only movies with lots of shoot-em-up scenes are listed, but it is interesting to see the mix of firearms used.

I still wish they would show things more accurately. But maybe if they did, it would not look as "cool" or "bad". I watched Four Brothers last night and thought it was very strange to see a small flame come out of a shotgun barrel after the gun was fired! And virtually ALL guns are recoil-less, and have unlimited capacity magazines. Oh well.