Moving to Tallahassee with guns, Part Deux

[guitarguy314]

Hi guys. Sorry again about replying so late on my last thread. Won't happen again.

Okay, so as per my last thread, I'm moving to Tallahassee Fl, form Pensacola, Fl for school. I have an apartment that is off campus, and there was no mention of firearms in the lease. They seemed to be more concerned about pets to be honest. However, with the paperwork, I was given a pamphlet put put by the Tallahassee PD. In this pamphlet, It mentions that a concealed weapon cannot be carried "within the city of Tallahassee". I have as of yet been able to find anything on the law books, but I could have missed it.

So, my first question is, What!? Is there some ordinance or statute that I'm not aware of? Did they mean, and just forget to add the "without a valid permit" part? I know you can't carry on campus, or in government buildings like courthouses, but the city thing took me by surprise.

TL; DR Can you carry a concealed weapon (provided you have a valid permit) In Tallahassee?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but this'll do for now.

Thanks everyone.

 

[steelerdude99]

From what I have read, Florida has strong Preemption Laws. So Tallahassee should have the same carry rules as Pensacola as Miami as ... I did some searches and see the law referenced in the link below passed and I don't see that's it has ever been appealed. It strengthens earlier state preemption law by adding penalties.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so before taking any action that may jeopardize your freedom, you should research your "pamphlet" by calling the Tallahassee PD and asking why carry law in Tallahassee is different than Pensacola. There must be a reason why a law such as Houses Bill 45 was needed to strengthen Florida Preemption Laws.

see link from 2011: http://www.nraila.org/legislation/s...-governor-rick-scott-sig.aspx?s=&st=10473&ps=

Governor Rick Scott SIGNED two priority Second Amendment bills yesterday.

... unrelated law omitted....

Houses Bill 45, Penalties for Violating Firearms Preemption Law, sponsored by state Representative Matt Gaetz (R-4) and Senator Joe Negron (R-28) will STOP local politicians and governments from violating Florida law by providing penalties for willful violations was also signed into law on June 1 and will take effect on October 1, 2011. The delay in the effective date is to allow agencies and local governments to REPEAL any and all regulations, policies, and ordinances that violate Florida’s firearms preemption law. Beginning October 1, citizens and organizations may bring actions against agencies and governments for violating Florida’s firearms preemption law.

chuck

 

[dprice3844444]

iami Herald > News > Florida
Posted on Tuesday, 12.10.13
6
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Court rules Fla. universities can't regulate guns


State universities would be blocked from regulating guns on campus under a potentially far-reaching ruling handed down Tuesday by a Florida appeals court.
State universities would be blocked from regulating guns on campus under a potentially far-reaching ruling handed down Tuesday by a Florida appeals court.
BY GARY FINEOUT
ASSOCIATED PRESS
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. -- State universities would be blocked from regulating guns on campus under a potentially far-reaching ruling handed down Tuesday by a Florida appeals court.
The 1st District Court of Appeal — in a rare opinion decided by the entire appeals court — sided with a University of North Florida student and a gun rights group that challenged a university rule banning students on campus from storing guns in their cars.
In a lengthy decision that prompted a strong dissent as well as multiple concurring opinions, the appeals court ruled that the Florida Legislature has pre-empted the regulation of guns by local governments and state agencies.
The court decided the state's 12 public universities are covered by this 2011 law. The ruling notes that while universities have the power to restrict lawful conduct — like drinking or smoking on campus — that power does not extend to regulating guns.
"Restricting recreational activities is a far cry from restricting a fundamental, constitutional right to keep and bear arms for self-defense," wrote Judge Clay Roberts whose opinion was supported by the majority of the 15 judges who serve in the court.
Eric Friday, the attorney representing student Alexandria Lainez and Florida Carry Inc., said the court had properly considered "the facts of this case" and came to the right conclusion.
"The university does not have the right to pass rules and regulations about who may have firearms," Friday said.
A spokeswoman for UNF said the university was reviewing the case and had not yet decided whether to appeal the ruling.
Judge Philip Padovano wrote a stinging dissent, noting that voters approved a constitutional amendment creating the current stand-alone state university system and giving it powers different from other agencies.
"These opinions pursue differing legal theories but they all arrive at the same conclusion: that a state university is powerless to prohibit students from bringing firearms to school," he wrote. "This remarkable conclusion is not supported in the law, and with due respect for my colleagues, I believe that it defies common sense."
Padovano argued that no one would ever doubt that a university professor could stop a student from making a religious speech in class even though the student has First Amendment rights to make the same speech elsewhere.
Judge Scott Makar argued that the Legislature has had a long history of letting Floridians store guns in their cars and that universities do not have unlimited authority.
"... If universities can regulate away a Second Amendment right, why not a First Amendment one? Or one protected by the Fourth or Fifth Amendment? The point is rhetorical, but nonetheless meaningful because campus authority unchecked can go astray of constitutional norms," Makar wrote.
Florida law currently prevents anyone from possessing or exhibiting guns on school campuses, including university and college campuses.
That same law, however, says the automatic ban doesn't apply to guns kept in cars. School districts have the option to adopt policies to prohibit guns in cars parked on campus. UNF attorneys tried to argue that the university falls under this exception but that position was rejected by a majority of the court.
Sen. John Thrasher, R-St. Augustine, said that lawmakers may need to step in. He said he does not think people should be able to take guns on college campuses. Thrasher was instrumental two years ago in blocking a proposal to allow guns to be openly carried on campus.
"If colleges can't regulate guns we may need to change that," Thrasher said.
Follow Gary Fineout on Twitter: http://twitter.com/fineout

 

[guitarguy314]

Steelerdude: Thanks for your reply. I didn't think Tallahassee having that law made sense with the rest of Florida how it is.

However, I did just search Tallahassee PD's website,

https://www.talgov.com/parks/parks-neighborhood-special.aspx

and came upon this

"Possessing a concealed weapon of any kind or firing a weapon at any time is a crime."

so I'm a little more confused. The link above (where the quote is from) is from a page specifically about living off campus.

dprice: wow, I hadn't read that. That's awesome.

 

[vamo]

Its probably just leaving out the "unless you have a permit" part. Its a pamphlet and everything on that section is probably on there because somebody did something dumb. Most college students don't have permits, so it could very possibly be an innocent oversight. If you're out of state make sure Florida reciprocates. Also some states will not reciprocate with anyone under 21, even if they otherwise would with people from that state, I'm not sure what the rule in Florida is.

 

[Red Wind]

Its probably just leaving out the "unless you have a permit" part.

That is almost certainly it. Carrying a fiream concealed, with a valid Florda CCW is perfectly fine, even in liberal Tallahassee! FSU,ya know.

 

[guitarguy314]

Vamo, Red Wind: Ah, I was wondering if that was it

Oh, and say what you will about FSU, but they have liquid helium literally on tap .

Now, because I want to be sure, how do I write the police questioning this without sounding untoward.

 

[Red Wind]

State of Florida:

www.handgunlaw.us

State Preemption
790.33
Field of Regulation of Firearms and Ammunition Preempted.
(1)
Preemption
.
—
Except as expressly provided by the State Constitution or general law, the Legislature
hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation.
of firearms and ammunition, including the
purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, storage, and transportation thereof, to
the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or any administrative
regulations or rules adopted by local or state government relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances,
rules, or regulations are hereby declared null and void.
(2)
Policy
and Intent
.
—
(a)
It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and
regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which
regulate fire
arms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or
regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this
section or general law; and to require local jurisdict
ions to enforce state firearms laws.
(b)
It is further the intent of this section to deter and prevent the violation of this section and the violation
of rights protected under the constitution and laws of this state related to firearms, ammunition, or
components thereof, by the abuse of officia
l authority that occurs when enactments are passed in violation of
state law or under color of local or state authority.
(3)
Prohibitions; Penalties
.
—
(a)
Any person, county, agency, municipality, district, or other entity that violates the Legislature’s
occupation of the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, as declared in subsection (1), by
enacting or causing to be enforced any local ordinance or administrative rule or regulation impinging upon
such exclusive occupation of the field sha
ll be liable as set forth herein.
(b)
If any county, city, town, or other local government violates this section, the court shall declare the
improper ordinance, regulation, or rule invalid and issue a permanent injunction against the local government
prohibiting it from enforcing such ordina
nce, regulation, or rule. It is no defense that in enacting the
ordinance, regulation, or rule the local government was acting in good faith or upon advice of counsel.
(c)
If the court determines that a violation was knowing and willful, the court shall a
ssess a civil fine of up
to $5,000 against the elected or appointed local government official or officials or administrative agency
head under whose jurisdiction the violation occurred.
(d)
Except as required by applicable law, public funds may not be use
d to defend or reimburse the
unlawful conduct of any person found to have knowingly and willfully violated this section.
(e)
A knowing and willful violation of any provision of this section by a person acting in an official
capacity for any entity enactin
g or causing to be enforced a local ordinance or administrative rule or
regulation prohibited under paragraph (a) or otherwise under color of law shall be cause for termination of
employment or contract or removal from office by the Governor.
(f)
A person
or an organization whose membership is adversely affected by any ordinance, regulation,
measure, directive, rule, enactment, order, or policy promulgated or caused to be enforced in violation of this
section may file suit against any county, agency, munic
ipality, district, or other entity in any court of this
state having jurisdiction over any defendant to the suit for declaratory and injunctive relief and for actual
damages, as limited herein, caused by the violation. A court shall award the prevailing
plaintiff in any such
suit

 

[smalls]

Now, because I want to be sure, how do I write the police questioning this without sounding untoward.

You don't. If you want to make absolutely positively sure, call a lawyer well versed in Florida firearms law.

If the police knew every law in their jurisdiction they'd have become very high priced lawyers instead.

 

[guitarguy314]

Smalls: Ah, good idea. Thanks

 

[NavyLCDR]

Their website and pamphlet are anti-gun propaganda. This is the City of Tallahassee code (not sure if the link will work):

http://library.municode.com/HTML/19...IICOGEOR_CH12OFMIPR_ARTIIIOFINPUSA_S12-61DIFI

ARTICLE III. OFFENSES INVOLVING PUBLIC SAFETY

Sec. 12-61. Discharge of firearms.

(a) No person shall discharge any firearms except in areas five acres or larger zoned for agricultural uses.

(b) Any person convicted of violating any of the terms of this section shall upon conviction be punished by a fine of $100.00 for the first conviction, $250.00 for the second conviction, and $500.00 for the third or subsequent conviction.

(Code 1957, § 23-13; Code 1984, § 15-9; Ord. No. 82-O-2060(AA), § 1, 1-11-1983; Ord. No. 08-O-70, § 8, 1-28-2009)

I am conflicted, because I don't like lies in government propaganda - but at the same time the citizen has some responsibility to know what the laws are and to ignore government lies when they see them. I've open carried right past "no firearms" signs in parks in Washington that I knew were illegally posted by the city/county.

 

[guitarguy314]

Update. I emailed a Florida lawyer who deals with gun cases (Jon Gutmacher, the guy who wrote "FLORIDA FIREARMS - Law, Use, and Ownership) and he says that I;m legal with a cwp. Thanks for all of your help everyone.

 

[Frank Ettin]

A happy ending.